Forum:Lifepoints -- deep breaths everyone!

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This thread was archived on 24 March 2010 by Degenret01.

The new update made a very major change to Hitpoints. Hitpoints have been multiplied by 10 and renamed Lifepoints, while the Hitpoints skill has been renamed Constitution. For the sake of clarity and sanity, I suggest that people don't start manic-adding "this article is out of date" to every article that mentions the word "hitpoints", which would be thousands of articles.

Edit: Aaaaaaaaaaahhh! I am seeing users edit the numbers by 10x without changing "hitpoints" to lifepoints. Aaaaaaaahhhh!! *runs around screaming*

--Agamemnus 19:55, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Why bother adding {{Obsolete}} to an article when you just could put another 0? FredeTalk 20:02, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Laziness!--Agamemnus 20:13, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Perhaps, someone could make a bot to replace hitpoints with constitution and add a zero to all monster Life Points in infoboxes? Tokkul detail.png Inhaps talk 20:07, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Uh-huh. For those templates, individual solutions could work...--Agamemnus 20:13, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
Can't many of us are already putting 0's in and a bot will complicate it.

Comment - All references to HP don't have to be changed, such as when RSC players went to RS2. It wasn't called Constitution then and shouldn't be changed. I see what you mean. :) Ryan PM 20:09, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

True, but I wasn't actually thinking this.. Maybe they shouldn't be changed ever when used in a historical context, like in Trivia or whatnot.--Agamemnus 20:13, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

A bot perhaps? One of our botmasters could probably send one through to change all uses of Hitpoints to Lifepoints. Btw, can anyone log in yet?--Degenret01 20:21, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

[1] FredeTalk 20:27, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
A yes or no would have been way cooler than a link to a page that can't load.--Degenret01 20:29, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
I'm logged in now.FredeTalk 20:33, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
And I just lost connection. Oh well, I'm off. FredeTalk 20:35, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I'm getting to work fixing as much as I can. A bot is infeasible for most of the articles, since it can't tell the difference between historical references (which I think should remain in HP) and current statistics. I think a customisable bot task may help for template updating... imagine the nightmare trying to update all of the infoboxes. Although leaving the variable name as HP would make sense to us, a new player some months or years in the future could be thoroughly confused trying to convert between them. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 22:51, March 3, 2010 (UTC) 

Hm the big problem is the risk of missing out pages or changing a page twice. I just did Calculators/Food healed using a regex mainly. I could use AWB to semi-manually change most pages, but it is not trivial. For example, HP, hp, hitpoints, hit-points and hit points. For example "foo heals 10 hp while bar only heals 3." This monster can hit 30 or even 40. For example .... "healing {{#expr:33+22}} hp))". So I suggest we categorise pages to be checked for hitpoint to lifepoint conversion, and those that have been checked can be marked as such. Later we can strip out the annotations automatically.

Here's a template:

  • [[Template:Check HP]]

And a category

  • Category:Pages to be checked for HP to LP conversion

I will (create and) document them now. Rich Farmbrough, 23:00 3 March 2010 (GMT).

HP should be preserved For my part, I think it's a mistake turning the Hitpoints article into the Constitution article. Hitpoints are now obsolete, and as such the article should be updated (to say HP were replaced by the Constitution system with life points), but the HP article itself should be preserved to document the historical context. Leevclarke talk Max_logo_mini.png bulldog_puppy.png 03:43, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

The page Hitpoints should be a disambiguation page to:
Rich Farmbrough, 18:31 4 March 2010 (GMT).
Agreed Air rune.png Tollerach hates SoF Fire rune.png 22:35, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
Support - For informational purposes, and to remove a red link, I have saved the version of the Hitpoints article just prior to its move in Hitpoints (historical). If a consensus passes, then the Hitpoints article can be adjusted accordingly. --LiquidTalk 03:12, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
I disagree. Hitpoints should be about the historical skill, with a dab link at the top to say something like "This article is about the obsolete skill. For the current skill that measures a player's maximum health, see Constitution. For the measure of a player's health, see Life points." Actually a separate "Hitpoints (disambiguation)" page would probably be better. But "Hitpoints" is an obsolete term now, and whilst it will likely be prevalent amongst the community for some time, it does not appear in the game or the knowledge base. Our article titles should reflect official terminology, as per RS:STYLE, so the Hitpoints article should be about the historical hitpoints as we knew them before 3 March. Leevclarke talk Max_logo_mini.png bulldog_puppy.png 15:56, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
I've made the disambiguation page [[Hitpoints (disambiguation)|here]]. I will move the articles soon, unless there is a serious objection from the community. --LiquidTalk 20:11, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Images

How about max hit images, or animations like the one on the Penance trident's page, showing it hitting a 95? Should images/animations like that be updated?~~Signed,Bulbear4444Slayer's respite.png~~ 23:20, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Yes eventually, where possible. For now and for those that can't an annotation? oldscreen perhaps? But I templated it so the community can develop the wording/style and we can start using it now if people want to Oldscreen. Rich Farmbrough, 23:27 3 March 2010 (GMT).
Comment - The images and animations are meant to show the attack, not the damage. This means that few (if any) will actually need to be updated. Ryan PM 02:58, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
Some specifically show damage, like ones form cut scenes. Or maybe I dreamed that... Rich Farmbrough, 18:37 4 March 2010 (GMT).
No, they do, like when the WOM 1-Hits something in Swan Song.~~Signed,Bulbear4444Slayer's respite.png~~ 20:11, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
I am aware that most animations of attacks do show damage (unlike [[:File:Watersurge.gif|this]]) but the only ones that should be even considered are those before the HP bar was improved in May of 2009. Ryan PM 03:05, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Templates

This is nasty, depending on what has already changed.

Example: Infobox Monster

Parameters

  • HP
  • max hits

New parameter

  • LP

I can replace all HP = X with LP = x * 10 - except some have already been done - without changing the name of the parameter

I changed the template to show life points of 10 * HP - again if someone changes the parameter it breaks.

Some max hits have been converted, some haven't.

I have AWB set up to make a lot of the changes - should I press on and risk having some figures double fixed? (All articles will need checking eventually.)

Feed-back appreciated.

Rich Farmbrough, 00:33 4 March 2010 (GMT).

The problem with just adding is a 0, is that it only applies to life points. The max hits are add a 0 to the end then add 1-9 to it for the correct max hit. (For instance I got hit 116 by a gargoyle, adding a 0 says 110). I have updated the gargoyle page, and will update others as I find them. --HaloTalk 00:47, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Sould we say 110 (approx)? Wish Jagex had given us warning about this, we could have wrapped the text. Another thing is there are a lot of places where hitpoints means constitution. Rich Farmbrough, 01:03 4 March 2010 (GMT).
Well someone must have been hit 119 or used monster examine, because I check gargoyles with monster examine and it said 119. (The page was updated to 119-not by me.) I also check abyssal demons and saw 81 as max. It is interesting...I'm guessing all maxes were rounded down before. HaloTalk 16:45, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
Yes where people have said they used monster examine, I add that as an HTML comment I hope they will all be examined eventually. Rich Farmbrough, 12:43 8 March 2010 (GMT).

The #expr causes problems wherever multiple combat levels with different lp are used, because of the commas. And template:, doesn't work. UCJSBucket detail.pngrwojy 01:09, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

OK thanks, that's fixable with #iferror: but prolly not worth it as HP param will be gone soon. We could make it display a message, I'll check it out. Rich Farmbrough, 02:27 4 March 2010 (GMT).
Fixed for most cases - will multiply numbers by 10, anything else will display like "(12, 34, 23) x 10" - only problem may be stuff like "12-22". Let me know if it is and I'll either fix the articles or the template. Rich Farmbrough, 02:39 4 March 2010 (GMT).


Can we roll back the whole wiki and disable editting pages for a set perios of time. the old hitpoints article can be conserved for future reference. and a program can be run in the time that editting is disabled to change all uses of the word "hit points" to "lifepoints. also all max hits can be multiplyed by 10. some articles will need saved such as the new shattered heart article. Also i have seen uses of hitpoints being changed to lifepoints and new links are not being put in place.

Yes, it is problem, that's why each article is being checked. As we check them we are marking them as described (I hope). It is a big task because not every use of HP is associated with the word - I just changed "hits in the high 20s" to "hits in the high 200s". Also "gives 300 hitpoints experience" needs to become "300 const exp" not "3000 lifepoints exp" for example. Rich Farmbrough, 18:35 4 March 2010 (GMT).

Poison damage

Poison damage seems to work a little differently. Please don't just add a 0 to poison damage. I think it needs to be tested a little bit. I have found that in some cases poison damage seems to start with adding an 8 digit on the end and then going down by 2 each time. I need to do more testing, but it seems that this is more complex than just multiplying everything by 10. Just a heads up. Air rune.png Tollerach hates SoF Fire rune.png 00:35, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, this might offer more insight into how the poison mechanics work. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 00:41, March 4, 2010 (UTC) 
Perhaps disease also works similarly now?
Never mind, that affects non-combat stats...  Tien  00:46, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
Ya, I actually think poison ends up being comparatively stronger because of this update... interesting. Air rune.png Tollerach hates SoF Fire rune.png 01:28, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
I think it doesn't. Wasn't it always "4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 3, 3, ..."? Now it's pretty much the same thing. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 08:48, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
Poison actually is acting like that now:"68, 66, 64, 62, 60, 58(...)", it's always been like that(6.8, 6.6 etc), but the decimal had been ignored for a long time. Just to let you people know... Quest point cape detail.png Brux Talk 00:19, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

AWB XML source

Here if anyone wants to use it. Rich Farmbrough, 00:44 4 March 2010 (GMT).

Naturally each edit needs to be checked by eye, and sometimes by digging in history. Rich Farmbrough, 02:28 4 March 2010 (GMT).
FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN-tastic. Using now. --Aburnett(Talk) 02:59, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, what does it do? OMG! Swiz Talk Review Me 19:51, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
If you have Wikipedia:WP:AWB and access to use it (here), these settings will do the following:
Generate a list of all content pages ( you can narrow that down by using a different category): when you press START for each article
  • Skip any pages with {{T|check HP}} already on them.
  • If a page has certain words like "hitpoints" it will
    • Add {{T|check HP}}
    • Attempt to do some easy conversions/changes
    • Make some general fixes
    • wait for you to press SAVE/SKIP or fix the article further (including unfixing any of the above - if you go through the entire article and all HP->LP stuff is fixed, change {{T|Check HP}} to {{T|Check HP|checked}} )
    • If you press save, saves the article with a suitable edit summary.
  • Otherwise skips the article.
Rich Farmbrough, 12:56 6 March 2010 (GMT).

Progress

All monsters up to the end of T are either tagged or fixed or both, but there are many articles that are not monster ones that need fixing. As time goes by it gets a little more difficult, as more and more articles are partly fixed. Tz-Kek is a good example, the max hit in the info box had been fixed, but not in the text. Rich Farmbrough, 12:46 8 March 2010 (GMT).

Well, I'm working on that now, my list contains all content pages. Yeah there are a lot of problems, like when someones updates only part of an article, but it's usually easy to fix. MULYWBucket detail.pngrwojy 03:10, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
Down to 200 unexamined, but a fair few in Category:Pages to be checked for HP to LP conversion, although most will probably be correct by now. There are a fair few summoning ones in there since I am not familiar (ha ha) with how combat and summoning work together. Rich Farmbrough, 21:00 14 March 2010 (GMT).

I'm scared... - I saw something that went like: "failing this obstacle can hit you for 30 damage." I was.. "Whoa... Wait, is that the new update...?" Lol--

Water Wave icon.png
Captain Sciz
TalkEditsHiscores File:Runecrafter hat.png|link=

18:16, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Yes... that's why I marginally prefer the phrasing "30 life points" since you then know where you are. I got tripped up by the Conucopia article which can store 140 points of food! Rich Farmbrough, 21:08 14 March 2010 (GMT).

Closed articles being or are fixed.--Degenret01 23:08, March 24, 2010 (UTC)