Forum:Jagex - advertise the WikiFest?

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This thread was archived on 10 November 2009 by Quarenon.

We really need to get this sorted. Are Jagex advertising the WikiFest or not? Personally, I really do not want them to. It simply makes it too hectic, and I don't want Jagex involved. On the forums, Bonzi said that he was going to go ahead with it, so I'm creating this thread to try and get community consensus (for or against) first. Vote oppose if you do not want Jagex advertising the 'Fest. Vote support if you do.

Discussion

Oppose - As nominator, and the all "against" points made in post nine of this thread [1]. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  06:32, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - No more Spamfest so dont let jagex advertise it!!! Twig Talk 772kZGs.png 06:33, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose Neutral - Although, it may be out of our control. Las time I don't think we actually told Jagex, they found out (which is a good thing, because they must check the wiki!) Cheers, Chicken7 >talk 06:59, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

No, I think last time Bonzi asked them to advertise it without notifying the community first. I may be wrong, however. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  07:52, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Although any single user/player could certainly, on their own, advertise this event in the RSOF or elsewhere (including on twitter, other clan chat channels, facebook, slashdot, etc.), I fail to see the real need to advertise this elsewhere besides the wiki. Surprisingly, when Mod Hohbein was discussing why some sites weren't listed as "approved" sites... I brought this very issue up noting that we had sufficient numbers of players involved that we didn't need Jagex help to gather more players for our events. They are large enough as it is. We could set up something that is advertised for a larger community event that is "sponsored" by the RS Wiki, but I don't think the wikifests are something that requires this sort of assistance. --Robert Horning 07:59, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Strong Oppose - It's called wikifest for a reason. I personally would not like random people crashing our fest without even knowing what a wiki is. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 10:19, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Neutral, leaning to Support - As long as I don't lag out all the time (just once a second). Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 08:36, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose Neutral - I don't see why it is needed, Wikifests are aimed at wikians. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 10:23, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

I switched to neutral after reading the rest of the debate. While I feel that the wikifest should be a celebration of the wiki, I can see the advantages of making it a form of advertising the wiki. Too bad that nobody can say the wiki's name in-game... Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 05:35, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Support - I think this would be a great way to get more players involved in the wiki. I do understand that this may mean more spammers and vandals, but from the last fest, I noticed only one spammer (who was dealt with) and I think the wiki held up fine afterward. The organization at the last fest seemed on par with the fest before that. Lets try and "assume good faith" on behalf of our invitees. Sure they're not a member of our community yet, but they could be. I think advertising has the potential to get more people interested in our wiki, and that is ultimately a good thing. I think this wiki is based on the spirit of inclusion rather than exclusion. We should be inviting people to our community and this is a significant way of doing that. Air rune.png Tollerach hates SoF Fire rune.png 10:49, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose for now - it would attract too many vandals for the amount of admins we have right now, plus there'd be too many random strangers. However, it could also help us grow a lot bigger and get a lot more done; more people at the wikifest, more people on the wiki contributing. I just think our community is growing at a fast enough rate now, and we might not be able to handle that many new user contributing. If we're talking strictly in-game wikifest, though, then a definite oppose from me. Too many people would come that no one would know. If they want to come, then they should join the wiki. 20px‎ Kudos 2 U Talk! Edit count! Contribs! 11:22, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Last time was a disaster. Slayer helmet.png

Elijah talk

16:10, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - This would definitely get more people to become aware of the wiki, but I think we're doing fine right now in terms of that. More bad than good would result from Jagex's advertisement of the wikifest in my opinion.  Tien  16:27, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - It's called the Wikifest for a reason. Andrew talk 16:59, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Support - An event such as this is an unoffical promotion for the wiki. We are sitting here pissing our pants over RuneScape not affiliating with us and then we deny them access to our community events. This is so hypocritical..why did we even bother with the affiliation thread? Restricting the wiki-fest is 100% post-productive. We are hogging everything to ourselves and removing the common user, which is also the common user for this website? This event is about community building, fun, and awareness. How are we bringing any awareness to anyone if we don't try to maximize our audience. How is this building community? I 100% support getting Jagex involved. Have we become so secluded we can't expand our horizons? Why are we so stuck up to just us? We can hold any old event any day in the clan channel if you guys arn't wanting to have an open invite. This is about expanding and growing...

Bonziiznob Talk

18:43, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

And about party crashers, spammers, people who have absolutely no idea what a wiki is whatsoever, asking why we are rioting? Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 20:11, November 1, 2009 (UTC)
Weren't wikifests meant to be wiki-only? And it was so until the last wikifest we had, when you told Jagex to advertise the wikifest without notifying the community first (we accepted the apology though). If we decide to open our wikifests to the whole RuneScape community, then we'll have to change what they're called or something, since they'll no longer be wiki-only.  Tien  20:43, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Per above. However, it was a nice thought when you last did it, Bonzii. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 19:39, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - We can barely handle the WikiFests when it's just of Wikians, and when you add people who have no idea what the schedule is, it just gets chaotic. And, honestly, I doubt that many of the non-Wikians who attend have any intention of joining the site's community. Dragon medium helm! Whaddaya know?Chiafriend12Better than rune!Loon is best buttlord 20:15, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Support per Bonzi - You guys are overestimating the negative effects of this. Besides, even if we wanted to I doubt we could get a message through to Jagex in order to tell them not to do it. They are advertising one of our biggest in community events yet refusing to put us on the approved fansite list, sounds like a bad case of the left hand not talking to the right hand. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 20:21, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Support For my part, I like the idea of having loads of people taking part who do not know about the wiki, just because they want to have fun with us. Although we cannot advertise the wiki, I think we can answer questions about it (for example, if someone says "what is this event for?", we can say "a runescape fan site", and if they ask "which one?", we can say "the runescape wiki"). I know that is a separate issue. But I think it's important that we do not develop an arrogant elitist idea of the wiki, so that only a "certain kind of player" is welcomed. We should be looking to engage and involve any player who takes an interest. Hopefully that will make the wiki community more representative of the runescape community, and keep the wiki relevant. Of course it will be more chaotic, but for me the chaos is half the fun! IMHO some people take the wikifests far too seriously - they're supposed to fun first and foremost, and having people we don't know just turning up and joining in is a huge plus. Don't let this become an "us and them" situation. Leevclarke talk Max_logo_mini.png bulldog_puppy.png 16:07, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

I just read what Bonzi wrote above, and I feel like we are 100 percent on the same page on this issue. As for wikifests being "wikians only", since when? Is the wiki cc wiki wikians only? No, because we agreed as a community that allowing anyone to get involved is totally the right thing to do, in fact is totally what a wiki is all about! Anyone can edit, because anyone can get involved and help to make things better. Don't start shutting it off now, please. Leevclarke talk Max_logo_mini.png bulldog_puppy.png 16:11, November 2, 2009 (UTC)
To be honest, Lee, I don't mind a few players tagging along if they see us doing one of our activites, and I'm open to a few non-wikians joining in. That doesn't mean, however, we need to ask Jagex to advertise it on their Twitter page (which is probably viewed by thousands of players each day). Asking Jagex to advertise will bring a multitude of party crashers, people who think we're rioting, etc. You said in your first post that "the chaos is half the fun". In my opinion, when things get as chaotic as they do when Jagex advertises us, the fun quickly disentegrates and it changes from the 2009 Autumn Wikifest into the 2009 Autumn Spamfest.

This proposal isn't to completely shut out players; if they see us, they're welcome to join. There are plenty of other ways to bring users to our site and I'd be happy to try some of them out. In my opinion, what always made a Wikifest special was that I knew (almost) everyone there. If Jagex is advertising it, that "special" part will be gone for me and it'll be just another one of the numerous parties people have in-game. I know it will attract new users and improve our community but it detracts from the quality of the Wikifest itself. Please don't ruin it for the rest of us by having spammers + party crashers show up again. Frown ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  21:20, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Support - Per Bonzi. While I left the Summer fest after the Costume Judging, I believe we need to have this advertised. Not only does it make the fest that much bigger, but it allows for an unspoken advertisement for the Wiki. If we are to Oppose this action for Jagex to advertise, why not prevent IP's from editing? Why not shut down all editing and become like Zybez to "Submit Correction(s)". My point, if this is a Wiki "anyone can edit", then why not allow potential new editors/contributors/clan mates to this fest? Last note, the spam is hard to keep down, and during the Summer 09 fest, I experienced what I do at a packed GE, one position to compensate for lag. This I did not like, but is hard to avoid. Support as the fine principle of the spirit of the wiki or shy down and tell Jagex we do not like being talked about, then do you think they will give a hoot about recognizing us anymore (if ever)? Ryan PM 20:11, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Support - I was sat on the fence until I read Lee's post. I 100% agree with him. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 20:57, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Support - Personally, I still don't like the chaotic nature of the wikifest (it's why I nearly always leave early), but after all it's not about me. After reading the latest comments, I have changed my vote to support.  Tien  21:14, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Support - Per all supporters. This is our only way to be recognized and spread the wiki in the game and wikifests are always chaotic anyway. - TehKittyCatTalk Wikian-Book 22:50, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Support - Per everyone else that supported. ~MuzTalk 23:07, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Strong Support - For one, even if we get one good contributor out of that, it would be 100% worth it. What would be the point of planning numerous fun activities if we plaster some large "VIP only" sign on it? Everyone can come and edit. Everyone should be able to come and join us in the Wikifest as well. Besides, are you going to have a face-checking list or something to make sure only the "right" people show up? That doesn't sound in spirit of the Wiki to me. We should do all we can to expand our community and welcome new users, whether they would just come and read some guides or becomeone of our key contributors. Finally, as the Wiki is all about the community, Bonzi wouldn't need a permission from anyone to do something like that. Now that's a throwing weapon!Doucher4000******r4000I'll eat you! 23:28, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Yes, everyone can come and edit. But there's a time when there are too many people. As said above, we're not trying to make it "VIP only"; anyone who sees the wikians at the fest is welcome to join in. Having Jagex tell players about it is another. It would be extremely laggy, even for people with good computers. There was an event just recently that Jagex had that was only advertised on the forums for a few hours or so and hundreds of people showed up and caused enormous lag. The wikifest is a fest of the wiki, right? In name, it sounds to me like it's mainly for wikians. If Zybez had a "zybezfest" and a ton of people who'd never heard of zybez (or any fansite, really) before that day showed up, the fan site people might lose some of the tight-nit community feeling where everyone knows each other. Jagex telling players en mass on their Twitter page has the potential to be beneficial, but I don't think it would work out right now. I'd like to be wrong, though. 20px‎ Kudos 2 U Talk! Edit count! Contribs! 08:14, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
Nicely said, Kudos. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  08:24, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
Sometimes sacrifices have to be made. I would love to see potential new members, you would love to have an uninterrupted costume contest. Just to put it out there, I think more people check the Jagex twitter daily than we have active contributors here. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 20:40, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
We can have all the private parties we want with the clan chat. Now that's a throwing weapon!Doucher4000******r4000I'll eat you! 21:25, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
But any private parties in the CC will be nowhere near the size of a Wikifest. I attend the little parties sometimes, but usually only 10-20 people show up. I don't want to ruin the only large Wiki gatherings by bringing everyone else along too. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  08:01, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Strong Support Its an open wiki, if some of you want a private event hold a private event, not a Wikifest.--Degenret01 08:01, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Strong Support - It's the closest thing to being on the "trusted sites" list. Plus, the non-wikians weren't the problem last season, it was the lack of good communication that screwed things up. — Enigma 14:22, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - It would just lead to more spammers and vandals. Dragon platebody.pngCeno FlameTalk Contribs # SignDragon chainbody.png 17:26, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

What the hell is that supposed to mean? If you are going to look at it that way, why not allow anyone to edit? Why not even do a Wikifest? Not everyone will be a vandal. If you are giong to take a look at it that way, shut down IP editing, shut down the CC, or even make it where only 100 people or less can actually edit this Wiki. Take note of [[m:Don't be a dick|'''Don't be a dick''']]. I say that due to your misplaced comment. Ryan PM 23:16, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - We don't need any more spammers or vandals. bad_fetustalk 19:09, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

You as well, there are going to be spammers and vandals no matter what you do. Both you and Mike forget one simple fact RS:AGF. Think about it before you speak. Ryan PM 23:16, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Wouldn't it be possible to invite everyone to the wikifest, and have a party for wikians only some time before? Then we can have a wikifest, and at the same time look what to improve on for the "main" event. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 20:41, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

We can have "Wikian-only" events on daily basis with cc. Now that's a throwing weapon!Doucher4000******r4000I'll eat you! 23:54, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
But, per my comment above, they will NEVER be the size of the Wikifest. The purpose of a Wikifest is to have fun, not as a subtle form of advertising the Wiki. Why do we need new users so badly anyway? We're doing fine as it is. Why do we suddenly need Jagex to advertise it? ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  00:32, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
Yes, a Wikifest is to have fun, but it has NO rules/edicts/laws that forbade us from advertising it (although implied is it were). New users? What is wrong with new users? We have over 14,700 users and not all even edit, whether that is to say it's good or bad is another. We can always improve, whether you see it or not, we can always use a lending hand. But do we need Jagex to advertise? No, but does it hurt? In your opinion, yes. But what about having a greater amount of editors/users? What is wrong with them NOT advertising us I ask. Don't we want to show that we have a better site than Tip.it, Zybez, and Rune HQ? You may say we are, but I say nay. Nay for this fact, you already believe we are the best yet provide no evidence we are the most highly used. I may have gone off track here, but don't bite the hand that feeds you, nor believe that we have enough users as it already is. Ryan PM 06:34, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
Yes, we can have them via the CC, but often only a few people are on at the same time. This way we could also "practice" for the main event. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 18:02, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - It would be okay if Jagex or other fansites DOES NOT advertises it, and filling the server to maximum capacity with mass lag. Fishing.png NnK Oliver (600613) talk

There has never been a time when Jagex has had the OfficialJagex Twitter account create a full server, it may get quite slow in one area of the game, but not the whole server. As for not advertising it, people that do read it will just ignore it or read it and take a few minutes to see the activity at hand. Ryan PM 06:34, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - @ Ryan: Don't get upset because not everyone agrees with your opinion, grow up and then maybe people might take your opinions seriously. Dragon platebody.pngCeno FlameTalk Contribs # SignDragon chainbody.png 19:39, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

That's not it, it's that you forget RS:AGF, by stating that it will only bring more vandals is your opinion, it's not in good faith. It's also not being immature, realize this before you make a comment. I cannot see how you tell me to grow up. Tell me what I have done to make you look at me as such and how I got upset. I try not to [[m:Don't be dense| be dense]] but if you are going to think I am on my high horse, then so be it. I state it like I see it, forgetting RS:AGF is just terrible, no matter who it is. If this is because of all my comments to multiple people (including yourself), then someone else may raise the same objection, more than one. However since I seem to be the only one stating long remarks you see it as such. If this is because I referred to [[m:Don't be a dick]], then get over it. Ryan PM 20:19, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

Move to Close due to Time Constraints - As this discussion is still underway it's not normally presumed to have formed a steady consensus, but with regards to time constraints on the date of the fest, if there is consensus to advertise, we will need some time to do so. I'm hoping a non-involved administrator or 'crat will close this discussion and give me their decision on a consensus so that if I am allowed to advertise, I can begin the process of contacting Jagex. Thanks.

Bonziiznob Talk

22:38, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

==New Proposal (compromise)== What if we had two Wikifests? One at the planned time (the 14th) that will be advertised by Jagex, and then a second one a week later (the 21st) that won't be? This way, the users who can't attend will be able to come on the 21st instead, we will still get new users and all of the opposers can have their "private" Wikifest. I think that's fair, comments? ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  04:58, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Edit: By the way, the second Wikifest may or may not follow a seperate timetable, depending on user comments.

That's against the point of advertising it anyways... It's about community involvement. I'm going to invite my friends to my real party and I'm going to invite you too, but you can't come to the real one, just the one used to please those that weren't invited to my real one... Anyways, we don't have time to form a compromise as the fest is in 5 days. 13:46, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Sorry, but that just seems awkward. I think that most people who want to come will, and if they cannot, most will probably just come next time. I expect only around 20 people would come to the second one. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 15:04, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

I didn't see the flaws in that proposal until this morning. >_< ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  20:40, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Another proposal

OK, so let's go ahead with Jagex advertising us. Then, next Wikifest, we make it "private". After that, Jagex can advertise it again, etc. In the meantime, I don't mind if Bonzi asks Jagex to advertise us now, but can we keep this thread open to discuss this proposal for future Wikifests? ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  20:40, November 9, 2009 (UTC)



Closed - Due to limited time constraints as the wikifest starts in several days, the original proposal is being closed under rough consensus. Jagex will be allowed to advertise this particular wikifest. Telos, if you would like to discuss other options for future wikifests, please open up a new Yew Grove topic. --Quarenon  Talk 04:48, November 10, 2009 (UTC)