Forum:Item stats in the GE pages

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Forums: Yew Grove > Item stats in the GE pages
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This thread was archived on 6 October 2009 by Calebchiam.

The idear

Hello all. Recently Gaz and I (well mostly Gaz... but I helped by telling him what I wanted!) made some neato changes to {{Infotable Bonuses header}} to make possible nifty set tables like this:

Item Attack-icon.png Attack bonuses Defence-icon.png Defence bonuses Other Absorption [[File:Saradomin armour set (lg) equipped.png|100px|A player wearing full Saradomin armour with platelegs]]
A player wearing full Saradomin armour with platelegs
Stab Attack Style.png Slash Attack Style.png Crush Attack Style.png Magic-icon.png Ranged-icon.png Stab Attack Style.png Slash Attack Style.png Crush Attack Style.png Magic-icon.png Ranged-icon.png Summoning-icon.png Strength-icon.png RangeStrength.png Prayer-icon.png Magic-icon.png Attack-icon.png Magic-icon.png Ranged-icon.png
Rune full helm (Saradomin).png
Rune full helm (Saradomin) 0 0 0 -6 -2 +30 +32 +27 -1 +30 +7 0 0 0
Rune platebody (Saradomin).png
Rune platebody (Saradomin) 0 0 0 -30 -10 +82 +80 +72 -6 +80 +40 0 0 0
Rune platelegs (Saradomin).png
Rune platelegs (Saradomin) 0 0 0 -21 -7 +51 +49 +47 -4 +49 +15 0 0 0
Rune kiteshield (Saradomin).png
Rune kiteshield (Saradomin) 0 0 0 -8 -2 +44 +48 +46 -1 +46 +40 0 0 0
Totals 0 0 0 -65 -21 +207 +209 +192 -12 +205 +102 0 0 0

I've also been doing a lot of work with GE price tables, which in case you don't know, use this code:

{{GEHeader}}
{{GEItem|Rune full helm (Saradomin)}}
{{GEItem|Rune platebody (Saradomin)}}
{{GEItem|Rune platelegs (Saradomin)}}
{{GEItem|Rune plateskirt (Saradomin)}}
{{GEItem|Rune kiteshield (Saradomin)}}
|}

To produce this output:

|}

And I got to thinking, how awesome would it be if we could combine those two ideas? We could add all the info about item stats to the GE pages (they don't even have to actually appear on the page, just be in the code), like this:

Note: Idea of adding stats to the GE pages possibly abandoned, see the addendum.

{{ExchangeItem
|View={{{View}}}
|Icon=Rune full helm (Saradomin).png
|Item=Rune full helm (Saradomin)
|ItemId=2665
|Price=1200000
|Last=1100000
|Date=20:51, October 2, 2009 (UTC)
|LastDate=7:27, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
|LowAlch=14,800
|HighAlch=21,120
|Store=No
|Category=Melee Armour
|astab   = 0
|aslash  = 0
|acrush  = 0
|amagic  = -6
|arange  = -2
|dstab   = +30
|dslash  = +32
|dcrush  = +27
|dmagic  = -1
|drange  = +30
|dsummon = +7
|str     = 0
|rangestr = 0
|prayer  = 0
}}<noinclude>
*This template is used in [[Grand Exchange Market Watch/Treasures]]
*This template is used in [[Grand Exchange Market Watch/Melee armour]]
</noinclude>

Then we could produce an identical table to the one you saw at the top of this page with just this code:

{{Infotable Bonuses header
|style    = text-align: center
|inv      = Yes
|image    = Saradomin armour set (lg) equipped.png
|caption  = A player wearing full Saradomin armour with platelegs
|image2   = 
|caption2 = A player wearing full Saradomin armour with a plateskirt
|rows     = 4
|tot      = 1
}}
{{Infotable bonuses row|Rune full helm (Saradomin)}}
{{Infotable bonuses row|Rune platebody (Saradomin)}}
{{Infotable bonuses row|Rune platelegs (Saradomin)}}
{{Infotable bonuses row|Rune kiteshield (Saradomin)}}
{{Infotable bonuses total}}

As you can see, it saves a TON of time and space in articles. Not only would a system such as this make it infinitely easier to make set tables, but it would make infoboxes extremely easy too, probably just something like this:

{{Infobox Bonuses|Rune full helm (Saradomin)}}

It also makes it extremely easy to make "hybrid" tables containing any amount of both stat and price information, for example this:

Icon Item Price Direction Low Alch High Alch Limit Members Details Last updated
Rune full helm (Saradomin)Rune full helm (Saradomin)43,713
Unchanged.svg
14,08021,1202F2P icon.pngview39 hours ago
Rune platebody (Saradomin)Rune platebody (Saradomin)50,016
Unchanged.svg
26,00039,0002F2P icon.pngview39 hours ago
Rune platelegs (Saradomin)Rune platelegs (Saradomin)37,987
Unchanged.svg
25,60038,4002F2P icon.pngview39 hours ago
Rune plateskirt (Saradomin)Rune plateskirt (Saradomin)38,067
Unchanged.svg
25,60038,4002F2P icon.pngview39 hours ago
Rune kiteshield (Saradomin)Rune kiteshield (Saradomin)30,892
Unchanged.svg
21,76032,6402F2P icon.pngview39 hours ago
Item Attack Bonuses Defence Bonuses Other Price Days H. Alch. Store
Stab
Slash
Crush
Magic
Range
Stab
Slash
Crush
Magic
Range
Summoning
Strength
Ranged Strength
Prayer
Rune full helm (Saradomin).png
Rune full helm (Saradomin) 0 0 0 -6 -2 +30 +32 +27 -1 +30 +7 0 0 0 43,713 coins (update) Blah Blah Blah
Rune platebody (Saradomin).png
Rune platebody (Saradomin) 0 0 0 -30 -10 +82 +80 +72 -6 +80 +40 0 0 0 50,016 coins (update) Blah Blah Blah
Rune platelegs (Saradomin).png
Rune platelegs (Saradomin) 0 0 0 -21 -7 +51 +49 +47 -4 +49 +15 0 0 0 37,987 coins (update) Blah Blah Blah
Rune plateskirt (Saradomin).png
Rune plateskirt (Saradomin) 0 0 0 -21 -7 +51 +49 +47 -4 +49 +15 0 0 0 38,067 coins (update) Blah Blah Blah
Rune kiteshield (Saradomin).png
Rune kiteshield (Saradomin) 0 0 0 -8 -2 +44 +48 +46 -1 +46 +40 0 0 0 30,892 coins (update) Blah Blah Blah
[[File:Sara set L.gif]] Saradomin armour set (lg) 0 0 0 -65 -21 +207 +209 +192 -12 +205 +102 0 0 0 Not sold Blah Blah Blah
[[File:Sara Set Sk.gif]] Saradomin armour set (sk) 0 0 0 -65 -21 +207 +209 +192 -12 +205 +102 0 0 0 Not sold Blah Blah Blah
</nowiki>

With this input:

{{Infotable Hybrid header
|style    = text-align: center
|inv      = Yes
|image    = Saradomin armour set (lg) equipped.png
|caption  = A player wearing full Saradomin armour with platelegs
|image2   = 
|caption2 = A player wearing full Saradomin armour with a plateskirt
|rows     = 4
|tot      = 1
}}
{{Infotable Hybrid row|Rune full helm (Saradomin)}}
{{Infotable Hybrid row|Rune platebody (Saradomin)}}
{{Infotable Hybrid row|Rune platelegs (Saradomin)}}
{{Infotable Hybrid row|Rune plateskirt (Saradomin)}}
{{Infotable Hybrid row|Rune kiteshield (Saradomin)}}
{{Infotable Hybrid row|Saradomin armour set (lg)}}
{{Infotable Hybrid row|Saradomin armour set (sk)}}

As you can see that contains almost every useful bit of information about an armour set. With two pictures it gets pretty wide, but with 1 I think its fine. If not, it doesn't NEED a picture, I suppose.

I think the changes I've proposed here will make it a TON easier and save a ton of time everywhere for every editor.

Questions

Here are some issues that need to be addressed concerning this proposal that I cannot answer myself:

  • Currently we need to specify how many item rows and total rows are used in the {{Infotable Bonuses header}} so the picture will show up correctly, is it possible to get around this?
  • Is it possible to have this {{Infotable Bonuses totals}} automatically calculate the correct totals or will they still have to be manually input?
  • Can a bot be made that will automatically add the item bonuses to the GEMW pages based on the data input into the Infobox on the item pages?

Proposals

In simplest terms, here are my proposals:

  • One of the following:
  • Add stat bonus information to the GEMW pages. They don't have to show up, just be there.
  • Putting the data somewhere else, such as [[Rune full helm (Saradomin)/Stats]]
  • Modify {{Infobox Bonuses}} to get its data automatically from the GEMW page instead of manual input
  • Create {{Infotable bonus row}} which will fetch its data from the GEMW in row format
  • Create {{Infotable hybrid header}} and {{Infotable hybrid row}} to create the hybrid table demonstrated in this thread

Addendum

Ok, so perhaps adding all this to the GE pages wasn't the best idea. So we need to put it somewhere else. Possibilities are subpages of items, like [[Rune full helm (Saradomin)/Item bonuses would contain something like:

{{ItemStats
|Icon=Rune full helm (Saradomin).png
|Item=Rune full helm (Saradomin)
|Category=Melee Armour
|astab   = 0
|aslash  = 0
|acrush  = 0
|amagic  = -6
|arange  = -2
|dstab   = +30
|dslash  = +32
|dcrush  = +27
|dmagic  = -1
|drange  = +30
|dsummon = +7
|str     = 0
|rangestr = 0
|prayer  = 0
}}

and function much like the reguler GE database, but be independent and thus not bog down the GEMW with additional functionality

Discussion

Support - I don't even know if this is possible, but if it is, then mega support from me as nom kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 02:44, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Concerns - While I hate to detract from such a well thought out idea, I'm worried that putting extra information on the exchange pages. I think that this change might make the exchange pages more vulnerable to more errors. I also think this would make it tougher for most users to make edits to the stats. Also, just for looks, I think the big table is too wide for some screen resolutions. Again, I do think this proposal was well intended and shows some great work, I just wanted to voice these thoughts. Air rune.png Tollerach hates SoF Fire rune.png 08:18, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Well the tables can be worked on, columns can be removed, or pictures relocated. I thought it might be too wide but I was curious what other editors thought. Also the infobox templates could all come with "edit" links contained within. But really, how often will an item's stats need to be adjusted? Once when they come out and once a while later when Jagex realises that it was ridiculously over/underpowered. Or not. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 13:15, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose

  • Too wide. For low resolution browsers, per Tollreach.
  • Information overload. Too much info crammed into a single table.
  • ExchangeItem template. Exchange pages should only include data related to trading: price/last price/high alch/low alch. Adding the bonuses data not only increases the template's size, it may stop the template from working altogether. We use this ExchangeItem template extensively for calculations, so only relevant data should be included in this template.
  • Non-tradeable items. We don't have Exchange pages for non-tradeable items, so adding bonuses data into Exchange pages would be pointless. Besides, data management would be more difficult, since some data would be located in mainspace, while others would be located in the Exchange namespace.
  • Potential errors/vandalism - If the bonuses data is located in an article and the data is wrong/vandalised, it can be easily detected and rectified. However, if the data is located in a template, it is much more difficult to detect. It usually takes me a while to locate an "expression error" caused by vandalism and wrongly entered data. Adding bonuses data will only make detection harder...

The idea looks good on paper, but unfortunately, there are numerous problems associated with this idea. Sorry.   az talk   11:01, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

  • Too wide and Information overload - the table's not critical and was just a suggestion, I don't demand it as is or at all
  • ExchangeItem template and Non-tradeable items - What if a new template and database for stats were created? With bots to do the grunt work its feasable
  • Potential errors/vandalism - RS:AGF, RS:BB, Just because something bad might happen is no reason not to do it, also how is that any different than what happens to GEMW pages?
I'm not saying your points are invalid, but You seem to be assuming a great deal. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 13:15, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Since the hybrid table proved unpopular as is I moved both the images down to the bottom in a gallery. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 13:20, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Support' - Mainly, let's try it out and see how it works. We shouldn't assume that these pages are fixed in stone and that the way they look is the only way that the information can be presented. If there is something that can be done to improve the pages to make them more useful for other players, I support those changes. Indeed, you shouldn't have to be seeking community consensus on every kind of useful change of this nature.

Obviously this wouldn't work for every one of the GEMW pages, but at least this would help to improve both the weapon and armor pages. --Robert Horning 14:17, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Support - Per Robert. I think its a great idea; az raises some good points but we should be able to work around them. I think there's a way to automate the totals row, though I think it might be a bit roundabout and awkward. But it might just work, I'll see. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 14:22, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Too wide. bad_fetustalk 14:50, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - The GEMW/Exchange system is barely functions as it is, the last thing we need to do is add more strain and maintenance nightmare to it. - TehKittyCatTalk Wikian-Book 15:05, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Pure chaos. Great idea, but it's too much. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 17:21, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Comment - We can't have a new namespace for it; Wikia only allows two custom namespaces per wiki and ours are Exchange: and Update: Concerned Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 18:15, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Facepalm. That idea's out then. I modified it slightly to hopefully allow it kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 19:47, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Request for closure - I'll refine my idea based on feedback and new info I got here, then resubmit. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 03:13, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Closed - C.ChiamTalk 07:05, October 6, 2009 (UTC)