Forum:Improvement

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This thread was archived on 2 April 2011 by Cook Me Plox.

Yesterday there was a Q&A on the RSOF. One of the questions was about what players' favorite fansites were. I would say that the wiki got the most support over others like Tip.It and RuneHQ, but there were some obvious spots where we could use improvement.

By far our biggest problem, and why people go to other sites, is calculators. It's not like our script doesn't work: it does (RSHiscores does not currently work, but that should change soon). Our GEMW calculators are comprehensive, but our JS calculators (skill calculators in particular) need to be created or fixed up. We also need new ideas for creative calculators. If you're interested in helping out with this, please see the calculator WikiGuild. Once we get to the point where we have sufficient calculators, I'm thinking we could have a big announcement of some sort on the main page to show people that they can stay here for calculators.

Secondly, our guides are often quite bad. I'm not talking about quest guides so much as skill training guides or moneymaking guides, which are often atrociously out of date or poorly written. I would like to see a complete reorganization of these guides, and also more use of {{GEPrice}} on them so they're up to date in terms of prices. Our Treasure Trails guide was also a place of complaint for the users on the forums. We should maybe be a little less image-heavy on the compass/scan pages (maybe just include minimap images), and I think it would be incredibly helpful if we could make a JS calculator where someone typed in their clue and we took them to where they needed to go.

Third, countervandalism. In the past few months the state of our countervandalism has fallen below where I've ever seen it. There are sometimes unreverted page blankings from hours ago, or other easily identifiable vandalism that slips through the cracks. Personally I look through every IP edit in mainspace when I wake up, and I find plenty of vandalism or poorly made good-faith edits. We need more users at all hours of the day to step up and patrol the RecentChanges more.

Finally, we need to do better with new updates. Some of you may say that we are the best at getting information about new updates out (we are), but that does not in any way mean that we can't do better. For instance, the Free Trade/Wilderness update is still biting us in the ass nearly two weeks later. My approach to this is two-fold: I want us to get information on new updates faster, and also be able to stop bad information from staying on pages very long. I'd like for us to set up some sort of page (possibly a WikiGuild) for new updates where we can centralize page creation and the like. We've also been plagued by a couple of incorrect edits that mislead some readers, and hurt our reputation. To make sure this doesn't happen in the future, I would like it if we could ask for sources more often when there's something that doesn't seem right.

Okay, those are my fourteen four points. There's not really anything to support here, but I hope we can discuss other ways to be even better at what we do. ʞooɔ 22:11, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

Comment - All three of your points are very true, but I think calculators and guides really need the most work. It's often very hard sifting through tons of bad information on skill guides when trying to find a method that gives the best cost per experience, or the most experience per hour. And honestly, I don't really think our calculators are that bad. It's just that we don't have that many of them, and they're not really well showcased in comparison to our other content. As for you point in countervandalism, hopefully it's just a passing thing and will pick up in a bit. Suppa chuppa Talk 22:18, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - Just as a point, I think that the first calculators made should be level up calculators. They're very much needed, and we don't have a single one. I always need to go to different places for these. I'd like to help, so I'll try to learn how to make one. ɳex undique 22:20, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

What do you mean by level-up calculators? We have skill calculators, but I don't know what you mean. ʞooɔ 22:24, February 13, 2011 (UTC)
That's embarrassing, I've never seen those. I thought that I had looked for them before... Still though, they're not all there.Lol ɳex undique 22:33, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - Will write calculators for food. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 00:25, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

*feeds steler* JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 02:28, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Strong comment - Classic history. But yah, I agree with everything you said, especially about our guides. --Aburnett(Talk) 00:47, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - Strategy guides as well. Just look how many strategy guides we have according to this.. And how many monsters/bosses/minigames exist on RuneScape?? Extremely lacking, and needs major improvements. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 00:53, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Weak Comment, leaning towards Comment - Per Aburnett. Especially the skill guides. Oy vey. Andrew talk 04:36, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - I've heard talk on the IRC of a countervandalism bot, but I think that some more abusefilters might come in handy, as they can do anything that a countervandalism bot can. If anyone can provide myself with ideas, I'll make a poorly done rough copy and then let Aburnett fix it up :D Ajraddatz 04:52, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Blarg - Who else feels that cook has become our public realations minister :P - Calculators? Yeah, we're lacking when it comes to quantity and how well advertised they are. Its not so much we cant make them, its more that we dont know what to make... Maybe we could get a few ideas from the community with a page for suggestions advertised the the sitenotice? And a few of our strategy/money making guides do suck pretty bad... But we cant just patch them up, because thats how they got like that in the first place, we need complete re-writes for most of them... I seem to be complaining a lot and not suggesting many solutions >_> - [Pharos] iPhone Edit 05:01, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Woah, just read it and that is a lot of support... Would this merit something like "From a recent [[link|Q&A]] it appears that we are lacking when it comes to Skill guides, Money making guides and Calculators. If you would like to help improve them, skill guides can be found [[here]], money making guides [[here]] and a calculator suggestion page [[here]]" Just a suggestion ^_^ - [Pharos] iPhone Edit 05:18, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Vandalism is a problem? So we get rid of the recent changes link? That will help. Good fight logic, rest in peace.--Degenret01 05:20, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

As I've said before... anyone who knows how to use the recent changes won't be accessing it through the link in the top bar... and all new users are better using wikiactivity. Ajraddatz 05:23, February 14, 2011 (UTC)
So screw the people that don't know how to use it, as long as you do. Thats' nice.--Degenret01 05:51, February 14, 2011 (UTC)
My little sister who is just now learning to read could figure it out. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 10:40, February 14, 2011 (UTC)
ONLY if they know it is POSSIBLE will they figure it out. If they have NOT been informed that they can do it, they will not know. And I have never seen a major sitewide or wiki wide announcement "ADD RECENT CHANGES TO YOUR PERSONAL TOOLBAR". Don't troll me Steler.--Degenret01 11:13, February 14, 2011 (UTC)
"Caps lock is cruise control for cool" ~ Harle - Unhelpfull comments inc. 11:36, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Strong neutral supportive comment - Yes, our calculators are atrocious compared to fansites like RuneHQ and Tip.It (I always go to RuneHQ for calcs), mainly because they're incomplete, and the limitations of javascript (it's slow, doesn't always load, doesn't live update, etc.) Our skill guide guides aren't that bad; the TT guides need a complete re-structure, the information is there, just badly organised. There isn't a really a quick solution, and all it needs is some good old editing, and a few coders. 222 talk 05:26, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - We really need a way to make good calculators. I'm not sure if it's possible but can we get proper js calcs that can be more useful than the current ones which are very restrictive and also seem to always be 1 item short of the amount needed. Guides, yeh some need re-writing like Land of the Goblins being one, tt guides the only difference I can see is how neat it is set up, which ours have improved on a lot. Money making guides are almost impossible to maintain without a group of people changing them every day, because it changes so much like stews sometimes being 1k profit ea but are a loss at the moment. But I think overall we did well and seems to be ahead it most parts. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 06:24, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

If we found out how many of an item a certain method costs and makes(for example, cannonballs cost 1000 steel bars an hour and make 4000 cannonballs an hour, or 1000 iron ore and 2000 coal an hour) so we can use the templates for transcluding prices (GEP, GEPrice, Coins) and multiply them by the amount of costs/makes an hour. If we got enough data, we could make it automatic with quite easy calculations, so this part of the wiki(which is often visited, and people probably want it to be better) definetely needs improvement. Also I suggest we have a page with the top 5 or top 10(or any other number) for best money making methods, and a "strategy guide" for making money quite easily(things like battlestaves and other strantegy stuff). JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 10:05, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like archive the RSOF thread? JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 10:12, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - I definitely have a problem with our guides. Looking at While Guthix Sleeps, I counted more than 40 images that are not helpful in completing the quest. There are something like 4 images that are maps or other helpful things. Looking at tip.it, they have 11 images, with maybe 1 unnecessary image. I've never been able to use our quest guides because they have far too much stuff on them. Riblet15 14:32, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - Ryan M: The RuneScape Wiki. I occasionally update the animations and images of specific items (e.g. Gavel, SGS, Sleuth). After editing it for over 2 years, it's my choice site. While the calculators still need to be improved, all that needs weeding out is Wikia's god-awful advert and facebook connect (FBConnect is probably the worst idea Wikia helped imo).

Yes, the calculators do need to be updated and according to User:Catcrewser, Wikia has been late to update RSHighscores relating to this by a week now after he contacted them with the updated file. Either we develop more 3rd party extensions that will be hosted by the Wikia code-base rather than on-site. It's not going to evolve much beyond the current semi-working JS calculators if we fail to do the former. I personally use Tip.it's as they are the most useful to me right now.

As others have said, all the Treasure Trail articles need are reorganization and maybe less image-heavy/compass positions. While it's not a relatively high issue, it was grouped alongside the calculators and usage of other sites rather than the Wiki. Hopefully when Jagex gets done with the report from that thread they might rethink what they already do of this site. Ryan PM 15:05, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Extreme force Gaz into slavery to make calculators - I tend to agree with more calculators not hurting, especially skill ones as those would most likely be most beneficial to a lot of people considering it's an area we lack in calculator wise (heck I wouldn't mind being able to be lazy when calculating stuff via the wiki instead of off my head/off a math calculator to figure out what I need to level something). Regarding anti-vandalism, again it can't hurt to be better in this department, actually it'd help the best of the bunch as I see it. As far as guides go in personal experience on of the least used areas on the wiki is skill guides (and quest guides assuming the quest is fairly straight forward and I don't get stuck on it) I assume it may be a factor on why these articles are lacking not due to me personally but due to the "I know how do this so I won't bother looking this up" thinking, which leads to less people looking it up and meaning less to edit it. Fixable? Yes, lots of input from people who've trained/made money from said skill? Hard to say. Just my standard rambling on this. Korasi's sword.png Archmage Elune  TalkHS Void knight deflector.png fetus is my son and I love him. 18:36, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Comment about calcs - I know this is going to make me sound lazy (partially because it's true in this regard), but the part about writing calculators that makes me not want to do it is finding out what the XP rewards are for every possible action I'm making the calculator for. If anyone is interested in doing this, I guarantee I will write a calculator with the information I'm given. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 22:04, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

I will certainly help with anything I can. I'm not that high-leveled, but I wouldn't say I'm low. ɳex undique 22:08, February 14, 2011 (UTC)
Your in-game experience is irrelevant, as all the information I'm asking others to collect already exists on the wiki; I just hate digging through articles to find it. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 23:58, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - Page 199, you'll see a guy say that "there's not much of a community" here. And think about it- if you're new, then you really don't know where the heck the community is at all ("what's a yew grove?" I can hear a newcomer saying.). I think that on-site community aspects (cough cough, forums, cough) need to be more integrated into the site.

  • Community
    • Yew Grove
    • Off-site Features
    • Recent Changes
    • User-to-User help
    • Administrator requests
    • Counter-Vandalism Unit
    • Wiki Events

To a newcomer, there is nowhere to go just to chat about RuneScape. I think the Forums need to be more advertised and known-- more than just a link in recent changes ("what are recent changes?"), or even the community bar--, and they will be the root of the player community- the community we have here is a community of editors. (davelopo) 22:56, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - I've done some work on how store prices work, with better/broader testing this could be used in some calcs to determine how much to buy/sell at a store. - TehKittyCatTalk Wikian-Book 23:05, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - There might be a way to make a Treasure trail calculator for us without requiring an extension, but then I need to know the answer to this. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 21:23, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Support - I think the update part should really be improved. E.g. the revenants article: "...in the wilderness, their patrol routes are labelled here, they can poison +teleblock + freeze,... oh btw, they are in teh Forinthry Dungeon now" Furthermore, I don't really see the problem with for example the TT guide. Of course, I do not use calculators or any other guides, so I cannot know... User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 17:13, February 18, 2011 (UTC)

Another comment about calcs - The past few days, I've made a point of improving/creating calcs. However, it's hard to do by myself, and a lot of it doesn't require any knowledge of how to write calcs anyway. If anyone is interested in helping, I can dole out simple assignments that will have a dramatic effect if a significant number of people volunteer. None of them will require any knowledge of how to write a calc, it's just (incredibly boring) copy/paste work. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 20:08, February 18, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - As calculators are now discussed in Forum:Calculatorspace, I'd like to move on to antivandalism. Today, I had to solo the entire day from the moment Sentra left, to the moment Suppa entered. That is, 11:24 to 18:52 UTC. That, while I was away from 13:12 to 15:31 UTC. I had to run through all edits during that time by myself, and then some edits slip through, like this, which was left unreverted for 3 hours. We need more antivandals, and we need them NOW. Also, we need more active admins. At the moment that I am writing this there are 12 files in CG:SDC, and some entries are way over 3 hours old. We need more active admins and antivandals. For what I know, we have 222, Sentra and Suppa for Australian times, with Chicken as active admin, then we have Urbancowgurl, Rsa and Iiii, and maybe other antivandals for the American timezone. The European timezone does not have an active admin, and today I was the only active antivandal(dunno bout other days). Just wanted to say we REALLY need to improve our antivandalism, and we need to increase the amount of admins, especially during the European times. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 20:38, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Survey - So I made a survey about the things I mentioned here. It can be found here. ʞooɔ 10:23, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

*bumper*  JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 03:15, March 20, 2011 (UTC)
When are we going to get the results of the survey? I seems to have been open for long enough. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 08:22, March 20, 2011 (UTC)
Should I assume we are waiting a month for these results? It'll be summer before you know it. Ryan PM 16:16, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - Is it possible to use other programming languages to create the calculators? I could probably make a good skill calculator in C# or Java.Guthix1110 21:17, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

You would have to garner support here and then submit the source code to Wikia through Special:Contact, even though they might not accept it as they took awhile updating the RSHighscores 3rd party extension by Catcrewser. Ryan PM 16:16, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

Results - The results of the survey can be found here. For obvious reasons this is a sample that is biased towards us, but it gives us a good idea on what we need to work on. As I said at the beginning of the thread, guides and calculators are our biggest content problems. In general our quest guides are better-received than we thought, and our problems countervandalism don't seem to raise too many eyebrows. New updates are not as good as I hoped they would be, and the way to improve that is with a more active editor base; in recent weeks we've had one or two people carrying the show for making new pages. Anything else to discuss? ʞooɔ 19:16, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

Strategies@!##@! sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 20:50, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
TT locator! (and you know what I think of our antivandalism: we need more) JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 21:51, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
Loved the comment "What do you mean "How would you rate the RuneScape Wiki on removal of vandalism?"". Probably thinks we go around cleaning up graffiti now. I think with quests the main problem is guides to the older (and in some cases noobier) quests, possibly just because they haven't been looked after, newer quests (IMO at least) are quite good. With TT theres a problem with the elite guides that we still don't really have all the information gathered, which makes it harder to improve anytime soon. --Henneyj 13:16, March 31, 2011 (UTC)

Closed - This seems to have run its course. Similar threads forthcoming (and some already here.) ʞooɔ 01:11, April 2, 2011 (UTC)