Forum:Image licensing

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This thread was archived on 26 July 2009 by Azaz129.

Image licensing

My chat in #wikia also brought to my attention the fact that we really need to start licensing our images. Poke at this for a minute and see how many you find that have actual licenses on them. Discuss. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 00:22, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree, we need to actually show our licensing, how can we even use it if we have no license or explanation for why we can use those images. - TehKittyCatTalk Wikian-Book 03:02, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Some of you may be interested to see the [[w:c:funorb:Template:Jagex|licensing template]] used for most images on the [[w:c:funorb:FunOrb Wiki|FunOrb Wiki]]. Quartic 04:35, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
As I told AndorinKato, if you guys find it too tedious or don't have/have problems with your bots, you can ring me up and I could bot them in necessary. Good luck! --~Joey~ ^Talk^ 04:47, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Agree - Per section 2.1 of [http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewarticle.ws?article_id=750 this article].

A template like this should work. -Byte_Master bytesig2.png bytesig3.png 11:03, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

It's Jagex Limited, not Jagex Incorporated.... Unless I'm having a brainfart again....http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3921/thehimmemote.pngGone. 21:13, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
That's easily fixed. -Byte_Master bytesig2.png bytesig3.png 00:46, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Support- Love the template too, should be perfect. --Rollback crown.svgAburnett001 {Talk} {#} 20:50, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Support - That is perfect! It will solve any possible legal issues very nicely. A magic scroll.png WejerFeather.png 07:27, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

We really do need to revive this discussion considering our licensing does "suck".--

Helm of neitiznot (charged).png Azaz129 Crystal shield.png Talk Edits Contribs

21:22, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Support. Per the simple fact that it makes sense. Now that's a throwing weapon!Doucher4000******r4000I'll eat you! 22:03, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Support Just in case something ever did occur legally with Jagex and us, this could really be a saving grace. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 23:23, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Support - This could always help our Jagex relations and not doing this hurts the wiki's credibility. I could have a bot working on this in no time if we needed it. - TehKittyCatTalk Wikian-Book 21:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Support - I mean is there any reason not to support? My proudest achievement Juliusc01Talk Click here if you think this wiki is obsessed with bunniesN W A  F T W 22:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Given that almost all of our images are property of JaGeX, would it not be much easier to add to our disclaimer (at the bottom of the main page) something along the lines of "All images, unless otherwise marked, are copyrighted by Jagex Ltd. and licensed for use here on the RuneScape wiki on terms of fair use. See RuneScape:Copyrights and the [http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewarticle.ws?article_id=750 official RuneScape fansite guidelines] for more information."

That way it would only be necessary to mark any images that don't come directly from the RS game, dramatically cutting down on the work needed. Dechaineux Talk 03:57, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

From RuneScape:Copyrights#Image guidelines:
Copyright information must be added to the image description page of every uploaded image.
Quartic ~ insanity is a virtue | Talk 04:25, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I am aware of this clause regarding copyright information but, as it is copied and pasted straight from central wikia ([http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_copyrights here]), I don't think it would be too unreasonable for us to modify this guideline for our own purpose. as stated by JaGeX:
You must visibly acknowledge that the images are the property of Jagex Ltd, and that Jagex and RuneScape are registered trademarks of Jagex Limited, and you must provide a link to the official http://www.RuneScape.com website.
Thus JaGeX's wish for their ownership of the images to be displayed can be achieved by amending the disclaimer on the front page (and by the looks of it we should add "Jagex" to the list of registered trademarks, along with RuneScape).
For any images that are not owned by Jagex (if we even have any) we can add a tag similar to the one suggested. Dechaineux Talk 05:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Comment - While I'm not trying to dismiss the generous support by Jagex to explicitly grant a license for images used within the game to be used for non-commercial purposes on fan websites like the Runescape Wiki, it is important to note here that either we are using these images under the non-commercial use license, or we are simply using them under the fair-use laws. Fair use is a legal defense doctrine that does not require permission of the original copyright holder... Jagex in this case.

BTW, the non-commercial use only licensing permission as granted by Jagex is incompatible with the GFDL and as such really doesn't apply to us on this wiki. It is a fine point to make, but it would be illegal to copy the contents of this wiki... if you include the screen capture images.... if the contents of the wiki were to be used for commercial purposes. Arguably the non-commercial aspects of this license are technically violated as it is by Wikia, as Wikia is a for-profit organization that is making money off of the contents of these images, although a common carrier status may apply to Wikia in this case as a type of ISP (internet service provider) for this website (a whole other area of tricky copyright law applies in that case).

The real trick here is to make whatever statements we make and claim as rationale for using screen captures for illustrations on this website that can in turn be made compatible with the GFDL, as opposed to pure fan art... something created originally by the community and thus can be licensed under a genuine free content license like CC-by-SA or the GFDL. This is a tricky area that even competent and very experienced intellectual property lawyers (not just your average law school grad here) would find to be fraught with legal hazards.

It is still useful, regardless, to tag all screen capture images with some kind of notification that they are being used under the terms of fair-use, and to allow a fine-tuning of the exact wording of this disclaimer/copyright status message for Runescape screen captures to happen at a later date as the issue is more fully explored.

My only real gripe is a seeming policy that seems to exist among some administrators that only screen captures from the game are permitted and other images that may even be obtainable via free licenses must be deleted... regardless of if they might be appropriate to an article on this site or not. This also includes "fan art" that would solve some of the fair-use problems here as well. And yes, I've had images deleted which were not copyrighted by Jagex, available under free licenses. We do need to get a grip on what images that don't come from Jagex might be permissible on this site. --97.117.63.102 03:45, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I agree with Dechaineux. We have a total of 22,000 images (based on [[Special:WikiaStats]]) in this wiki. We don't need to license every single screenshot image from the game client. That would be pointless and time-consuming, even for a bot. We should just focus on images taken outside the client, such as images from the RuneScape website (fair use), and fan art from the RuneScape (free).

We already have this template for "Fair use" images:

Copyright.svg
This image, obtained outside of the RuneScape game client, is classified as a non-free image.
The image depicted here is subject to Jagex's copyright and is displayed here under the conditions of fair use.
Image source: [Jagex Jagex].

And this for "Free" images:

GFDL

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts.


The new template proposed above is unnecessary as these two templates should cover most of the images taken from sources other than the game client.   az talk   08:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I like the new template better. The ones above make us look more like the Wikipedia, and what has that buffalo picture got to do with anything? ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  07:37, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - If we are going to get serious about fair use and image licensing, we will have to make MAJOR changes. Fair use allows the inclusion of copyrighted work in places where the object depicted will be subject to critical commentary (i.e. you will be talking about what is shown in the picture, you're not just using it for decoration etc.). Some changes we will have to make are:

  1. Remove the images of runes in our site logo
  2. Disallow the use of images copyrighted by Jagex on user pages etc, either obtained from the game client or the RS website
  3. Delete RuneScape:Featured images
  4. Remove Jagex-owned images from our signatures, user boxes, templtes, etc.
  5. Remove the rune icons from the Yew Grove main page
  6. Reduce the size of all images to a low enough resolution that is considered not able to infringe on the copyright of Jagex
  7. Add a non-free use media rationale for EVERY inclusion of a fair use image in EVERY article which must include a sensible reason as to why the image is being used, the portion used, the source and author. (This is the template, this is the template being used)...

As you can see, the list does go on. In my opinion, Jagex is not really strict on copyright procedures, and according to the quote above, they will let you use their images as long as they are not used to promote something Jagex doesn't believe in.

Now to address the reason as to why I opposed: why can't we just change the thingy above the upload form on Special:Upload to comply with the rules set out? Seriously... it's much easier than adding a template to 22K images. And to answer Telos' question - no, it's not a buffalo, it's a Gnu, it's the official logo of the GNU FDL and the GNU project. CFLM (Talk) 11:55, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and by "the thingy above the upload form", I mean the thing that says "All images of RuneScape are copyrighted by Jagex. Images of RuneScape are used here under fair use." CFLM (Talk) 11:57, 18 May 2009 (UTC)