Forum:IRC cloaks

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This thread was archived on 21 April 2012 by Gaz Lloyd.

Recently I noticed [[w:c:starwars:|Wookieepedia]] has acquired their own IRC cloaks (@wookieepedia), and this lead me to do some asking around about the possibility of doing the same ourselves. After talking with one of the Wookieepedia bureaucrats, I was told that we'd have to fill out a group registration form with freenode. I then contacted sannse about whether we'd be able to, and she said we would but we'd have to change our channel's name because it currently falls under the wikia group's registration.

The main reason for our own cloaks is that it would be a way for us to show just who we are, instead of being consumed in the wikia bubble. It would also allow us to decide who gets a cloak, so that regular users of the IRC channel can still receive a cloak even if they're not active on the wiki enough to qualify for a wikia cloak. Of we choose to, we could have different "inside" tokens such as "admin" and "bot". This way we could set the channel flags on the cloak rather than having to do it per person if we so choose, and finally get evilbot off Evil's cloak.

Cloaks and channel name

Because we use #wikia-runescape, our channel falls under Wikia's registration, so we'd need to change our channel name. I suggest either #runescapewiki or #rswiki. I'd prefer #runescapewiki since it looks nicer in my opinion. The channel name would most likely be the same as our cloak.

Group contact

We'd also need to decide on who to be our group contact(s). These people will be the ones who contact freenode staff about getting a cloak applied to someone. I'd be willing to do it if no one else wants to.

Basically if we decide to get our own cloaks, we'll need to decide on a channel name (which should probably be the same as the cloak) and (a) group contact(s).

Announcement: #rswiki

I've transferred our existing access (from #wikia-runescape) to #rswiki. I've opened the channel and users are now free to chat in it. I think the best thing to do is once this thread closes, set #wikia-runescape to forward to #rswiki (anyone who joins is automatically sent to the new channel). After maybe a month or so, we should set the channel to invite-only to prevent people from idling there and making our move complete. We need to update our webchat links when this becomes official. For now, feel free to join either channel. If someone wants to close at least the channel-moving portion of this thread, I will change the channel settings for #w-r. Christine 22:44, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Consensus

  • The #wikia-runescape channel will be phased out and replaced by #rswiki
  • IRC users will be able to request a cloak, which will be @runescapewiki.


  • There needs to be more discussion on admin and bot cloaks.
  • The Group Contacts need to be finalised.

Archived discussion here - 222 talk 04:00, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

The form to be used by the Primary contact once the thread is finalized. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 04:06, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

Users who want a cloak

Users who would like a cloak, please sign below with your NickServ username so that when the primary contact submits the request they can include a list of users to have cloaks assigned to. Users who have underscores in their NickServ username (which are disallowed by freenode) or wish to have a different name or capitalisation of it in their cloak can also request a specific cloak.

  • ZamorakO_o (cloak: @RuneScapeWiki/TyA svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 16:45, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
  • Joeytje50 JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 16:49, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
  • A_proofreader (cloak: @runescapewiki/a-proofreader)  a proofreader ▸  18:06, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
  • fergie (cloak: @runescapewiki/Urbancowgurl777) sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 21:17, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
  • Matthew2602 Matt (t) 21:45, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
  • Hair Hair 23:33, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
  • Iiii_I_I_I (cloak: @runescapewiki/Iiii-I-I-I) --Iiii I I I 01:26, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • Sentra246 Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 02:01, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • NickServ name KD100 Zaros symbol.png KDanger Talk 02:16, February 11, 2012 (UTC) @runescapewiki/KDanger
  • Jim_teh_Mage Korasi's sword.png Archmage Elune  TalkHS Void knight deflector.png fetus is my son and I love him. 02:29, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • Thebrains222 - (cloak: @runescapewiki/thebrains222) 222 talk 03:45, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • Chess1242 - (cloak:@runescapewiki/Chessmaster) - bad_fetustalk 20:48, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • Ryan_PM (cloak: @runescapewiki/ryan-pm) - Ryan PM 23:34, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • Stygma - (cloak: @runescapewiki/Stygma) S T Y G 23:35, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • RagM - (cloak: @runescapewiki/rag-m) Raglough 00:24, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
  • Exor_Solieve - (cloak@runescapewiki/Exor-Solieve) User:Exor Solieve 04:05, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
  • Wingcap - (cloak: @runescapewiki/Wingcap) -  Golden warpriest of Zamorak helm.png Wingcap Firemaking master cape.png 20:28, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
  • Cycloneblaze (cloak: @runescapewiki/cycloneblaze) -- Cycloneblaze (user - talk - contribs) 18:15, February 18, 2012 (UTC)
  • Chicken7 Chicken7 >talk 04:43, March 6, 2012 (UTC)
  • Hofmic (cloak: @runescapewiki/hofmic) Hofmic Talk 15:40, March 6, 2012 (UTC)
  • Aburnett (cloak: @runescapewiki/aburnett) Aburnett(Talk) 20:08, March 7, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

Comment - I don't like the idea of separate cloaks for sysops, and am rather against the idea for bots too. As for general contacts, I think Gareth, myself, Ty, and Cook, are good choices, with Gareth as the primary contact. As a side note, I do think the general contacts should use the @runescapewiki cloak. --LiquidTalk 04:28, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

In my opinion - we should have bot cloaks. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 04:32, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

Cloaks - I don't think sysop cloaks are necessary and bot cloaks are slightly less useless as all bots have bot at the end of their nick. 222 talk 04:39, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

I still reckon that bot cloaks are useless, but if Freenode requests it, I'm happy to have them. 222 talk 07:36, February 7, 2012 (UTC)

Comment - Can I refer people regarding the bot cloak issue to How are group cloaks formatted?, quoting:

Please use the token bot to indicate automated utility clients.

I think it's fair enough request from Freenode, and we as a project should honour it. --RSDaftVader 04:44, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose sysop cloak- Other than that, I dont really have an opinion about a cloak for bots. Raglough 07:24, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

Opinions - Bot cloaks might be useful, but admin cloaks are unnecesary. For the contacts, Gaz for the primary, then maybe Liquid, cook, maybe zammy, and me or brains for our timezone. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 07:30, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose sysop cloak - [Copy pasta from archive here]. Hofmic Talk 14:02, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose sysop cloak, neutral bot cloak - And I'm fine with the people mentioned above being contacts, too. Matt (t) 20:55, February 7, 2012 (UTC)

Support bot cloak, oppose sysop cloak - (Bot cloak) Per RSDaftVader. I've already seen things like @ubuntu/bot/x around Freenode and think it's a great idea. (Sysop cloak) Per Project:Status and opinion-weight. It could become a sort of status symbol, but then so can the sysop highlight.

 a proofreader ▸ 

18:18, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Comment - Are we going with primary and secondary contacts, or just using the single account with multiple access (ajr's idea in the now archived bit)? Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 19:38, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

I think the point is to have a single account with multiple access with you being the primary user in charge of it. --LiquidTalk 21:21, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
I think this is wrong and not a good idea, but check w/ Freenode staff to see what they say, my opinion is that it should be primary and secondary contacts and not a single account (as much of a good idea as it may sound). --RSDaftVader 22:25, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
Why isn't it a good idea? ajr 23:40, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
Okay, apart from the impulsive reason that I just don't like it/don't think it's a good idea, is that from memory back in the day (and I'm 90% sure this still applies) is that one of the points is, that it creates a contact person for the group/entity, not only that, but also (and again from the Freenode website [1]):

If the group is run by two equal participants, each should submit a group registration form to make it clear that both wish to have the group registered. If it's run by a larger core group or by voting across the project, the voting group should make a collective decision to register and should appoint one of their number as primary contact.

I'm pretty sure Runescape Wiki meets the latter, and it's Freenode's wish that a group registration would include one person as the Primary, and x people (where x is the group's choice) as Secondaries, and by the sounds of it, you can give all the secondaries the rights of the primary contact anyway, so I fail to see any point to do it any other way. As I said, really someone should get with Freenode Staff to see what they say to be sure, but I think that they have made it clear how they would like them setup. --RSDaftVader 03:59, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

Bump - Someone who knows someone from Freenode who handles this stuff should ask about the general contacts situation. This thread has been dead for a few days now; it's only been people requesting cloaks. --LiquidTalk 22:03, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

I believe RSDraftVader has answered the contacts question from his quotes from the freenode website. I believe we have consensus for who to be our contacts, but we just need to decide who to be the primary contact and the rest shall be secondary contacts. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 22:50, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

Comment - I don't really have an opinion on the sysop/bot cloaking, since I don't really understand the concept of separate cloaks for sysops/bots (and I'm not asking about it, either). I will say that if freenode requests that we use cloaks for such, we should, for politeness if noting else. Anyway, I just wanted to ask - can any user, regardless of IRC / wiki activity, apply for (and obtain) a cloak? It seems like a useful thing to have if I am ever on IRC, which is not often. And how would a user apply for cloak at a later date once this thread is closed? -- Cycloneblaze (user - talk - contribs) 15:38, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

I suppose we should create a new section or new subpage of RS:IRC to deal with cloak requests. Once someone lists their name and preferred cloak, they'll need to contact one of the group contacts to get freenode to set the cloak. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 18:06, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

Comment - Another question: will we require that a user's cloak is their wiki username, or will we allow some degree of freedom? For example, would the likes of @runescapewiki/Gaz, @runescapewiki/Cook, and @runescapewiki/Liquid be allowed or would they have to be @runescapewiki/Gaz-Lloyd, @runescapewiki/Cook-Me-Plox, and @runescapewiki/Liquidhelium, respectively? Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 18:06, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

allow some freedom bad_fetustalk 15:15, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
Someone may join the IRC, not know what the shortened cloaks stand for, and need to post on someone's talk page on the wiki after seeing s/he's away on IRC. For this reason I'm leaning towards allowing only case variations of one's wiki name.  a proofreader ▸  19:37, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
How would that help them? If they wanted to find their user page, they wouldn't be able to from the cloaks, as the wiki is case sensitive and you can't have underscores in the cloak. I say give them some freedom, for no particular reason other than the fact that choice is gud. Hofmic Talk 23:39, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
A fair point which I did think about, but only for the initial letter. I now see that there would be ambiguity between - and _ anyway.  a proofreader ▸  23:57, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
If we allow some freedom, I'm sure the contacts can discuss with the user about their cloak being too far from their wiki name, and can use their common sense to determine what is too far. If needs be they can also discuss with the other contacts or with the channel in general.
Also if one were to be deemed inappropriate later, it is not too much of a deal to get it changed. Sure, too many change requests would be bad, but I'm sure we can allow some (especially with user renames on-wiki), and at least the user won't have to go badger Wikia or freenode staff about it.
I would also suggest adding a link to the users' userpage to their NickServ metadata (see /msg nickserv help set property for info, /msg nickserv info gaz for example), especially if cloak varies from username. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 17:38, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Comment - Will this be closed any time soon? Or do we need to have another discussion on the contacts? 222 talk 09:19, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

Contacts

Who do we want to be our primary contact and who to be our secondaries? I believe we've agreed on Gaz, Liquid, Cook, and myself to be contacts, and apologize if I missed anyone because this thread is kinda old so I may have forgotten a few things. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 22:15, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

With Gareth as primary. --LiquidTalk 01:26, March 6, 2012 (UTC)
Liquid as deputy, oh wait.... (where did that rfr go). Yes, Gareth as primary. Raglough 01:12, March 8, 2012 (UTC)
Liquid has always been derp-uty. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 11:57, March 8, 2012 (UTC)
@Rag, there is no "deputy" in the IRC. @Pimnoob, >:( --LiquidTalk 18:44, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

Okay - I have submitted the GRF-f, with the cloak requests as listed above. I shall leave this thread open to post updates on the progress as it happens. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 18:42, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

This request for closure was denied A user has requested closure for IRC cloaks. Request denied. The reason given was: Open for two months as of yesterday, no discussion for two weeks. Contacts and cloaks have been finalised, channel rename took place a month over a month ago. Ronan Talk 09:54, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
Like I stated, I will post news here as it happens. I have yet to receive anything from freenode about the request. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 14:12, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Bumpy comment - Whatever happened to GRF-f being faster... Frown 222 talk 11:21, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

If we submitted a normal request it could go on for months. By comparison, this should be faster. --LiquidTalk 14:53, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

I have a feeling I am going to be gone by the time the cloaks happen. What can you do. Raglough 16:10, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

Closed - Reply from freenode:

Howdy,

After extensive discussion over the last few weeks, we've very recently
concluded that gaming wikis are not on-topic for the freenode primary
channel namespace. One reason for this is that the gaming community is
best serviced by other networks that focus on it, such as Quakenet, and
freenode is intended to facilitate a specific type of community (often
including but not limited to free software groups), not be a general
discussion medium. As a result, I'm rejecting this GRF-f.

Dax

Thus, we will not have new cloaks as the GRF-f was rejected. As this thread has gone on long enough, I'm going to close it. Any new proposals (like changing networks or whatever) should be made in a new thread. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 15:14, April 21, 2012 (UTC)