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Forums: Yew Grove > Historical Store location list
Archive
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Please do not edit the contents of this page.
This thread was archived on 18 September 2019 by Elessar2.

Store Location List

The current iteration of Template:StoreLine (which displays items a store sells) allow for stores, including those removed from the game, to show the items they sell (along with stock, prices etc). The corresponding Template:Store locations list (which displays which stores sell a specific item), only allows for displaying the stores that currently sell the item, or stores that historically have sold the item (used for items removed from the game).

It has been requested to display both the current and historic stores on an item page and in order to do this currently both tables need to be used, and if either doesn't apply it throws an error, see below, with potential solutions to displaying both listed below that.

Current


Shops:

This list was created dynamically. For help, see the FAQ.
To force an update of this list, click here.
SellerLocationCostCurrencyBase stockMembers?
Azibo's Toy StoreMerchant district150Coins 100.png Coins10F2P icon.png
Diango's Toy StoreDraynor Village150Coins 100.png Coins10F2P icon.png
Toy StoreWest of Cooks' Guild150Coins 100.png Coins10F2P icon.png
† Denotes discontinued stores that stock Toy horsey (brown) For help, see the FAQ.

Historical Shops:

Note: As this item is no longer sold, this is a list of stores that previously sold it.
This list was created dynamically. For help, see the FAQ.
To force an update of this list, click here.
SellerLocationCostCurrencyBase stockMembers?
Toy StoreWest of Cooks' Guild150Coins 100.png Coins10F2P icon.png

Errors:

Lua error: The item "Liber tea" is not sold in any shop, please check for typos and that item is not historical.

Lua error: The item "Something" is not sold in any shop, please check for typos.

Option 1:


Only show the historical stores on items that are no longer sold in game. For items still sold in game you only see the stores that still sell it.

This list was created dynamically. For help, see the FAQ.
To force an update of this list, click here.
SellerLocationCostCurrencyBase stockMembers?
Azibo's Toy StoreMerchant district150Coins 100.png Coins10F2P icon.png
Diango's Toy StoreDraynor Village150Coins 100.png Coins10F2P icon.png
Toy StoreWest of Cooks' Guild150Coins 100.png Coins10F2P icon.png
† Denotes discontinued stores that stock Toy horsey (brown) For help, see the FAQ.

Option 2:


Just use both location lists below each other (as above). The down side is that this takes up a lot of space for information that is of little interest to most people, and it has to be manually added to each page where it's wanted, and either list throws an error if there are no appropriate stores.

This list was created dynamically. For help, see the FAQ.
To force an update of this list, click here.
SellerLocationCostCurrencyBase stockMembers?
Azibo's Toy StoreMerchant district150Coins 100.png Coins10F2P icon.png
Diango's Toy StoreDraynor Village150Coins 100.png Coins10F2P icon.png
Toy StoreWest of Cooks' Guild150Coins 100.png Coins10F2P icon.png
† Denotes discontinued stores that stock Toy horsey (brown) For help, see the FAQ.
Note: As this item is no longer sold, this is a list of stores that previously sold it.
This list was created dynamically. For help, see the FAQ.
To force an update of this list, click here.
SellerLocationCostCurrencyBase stockMembers?
Toy StoreWest of Cooks' Guild150Coins 100.png Coins10F2P icon.png

Option 3:


A collapsible table below the regular locations list, that is automatically added to any item with historical sources. If the item only has historical sources the initial table would be replaced by the historical one.

Item with both sources

This list was created dynamically. For help, see the FAQ.
To force an update of this list, click here.
SellerLocationCostCurrencyBase stockMembers?
Azibo's Toy StoreMerchant district150Coins 100.png Coins10F2P icon.png
Diango's Toy StoreDraynor Village150Coins 100.png Coins10F2P icon.png
Toy StoreWest of Cooks' Guild150Coins 100.png Coins10F2P icon.png
† Denotes discontinued stores that stock Toy horsey (brown) For help, see the FAQ.
Discontinued shops
Seller Location Cost Currency Base stock Members?
Toy Store West of Cooks' Guild 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png

Item with only historical source

Note: As this item is no longer sold, this is a list of stores that previously sold it.
This list was created dynamically. For help, see the FAQ.
To force an update of this list, click here.
SellerLocationCostCurrencyBase stockMembers?
Toy StoreWest of Cooks' Guild10Coins 5.png Coins5F2P icon.png

Option 4:


Adding the historical stores to the regular table with a different border and background color. Note: Colors/styling are just an example.

This list was created dynamically. For help, see the FAQ.

To force an update of this list, click here.

Seller Location Cost Currency Base stock Members?
Azibo's Toy Stall Merchant district 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png
Diango's Toy Store Draynor Village 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png
Toy Store West of Cooks' Guild 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png
Sold by
Previously sold by

Option 5:


Adding the historical stores to the regular table with a symbol to denote historical stores. Note: Symbol is just an example

This list was created dynamically. For help, see the FAQ.

To force an update of this list, click here.

Seller Location Cost Currency Base stock Members?
Azibo's Toy Stall Merchant district 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png
Diango's Toy Store Draynor Village 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png
Toy Store West of Cooks' Guild 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png
✞ Denotes stores that previously sold Toy horsey (brown)


Historical Data for current shops

The second question is whether or not we want to show items that are no longer sold by a store, however the store still sells other items. This could either be for items removed from stores in general or only from the specific stores. Do we show these items on the store page and/or show the store on the item page (under Historical)?

Option: All Show the items on the store pages (probably in a new table at the bottom of the store page).

Option: Item Page Show the stores that used to sell the item on the item page, but don't show the item on the store page.

Option: None Show neither the item nor the store on the pages. Note that this presents a problem for items that are no longer sold, but were once sold by a store that still exists as the item will have no sources on its page.


If something is not clear or anything feel free to ping me on discord (same name). Seers headband 2 chathead.png Elessar2 (talk)


Discussion

Support 3, All - as nominator. I think it's the cleanest and least obtrusive option, that still supports showing the historical information. I also feel that if we're going to show any of the historical store/item info we should show it all. Seers headband 2 chathead.png Elessar2 (talk) 10:51, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Option 4 (with minor changes), None - Option 1 means that items which still exist in the game (eg toy horsey (brown)) but were sold at a shop that no longer exists will not have the historical shop mentioned in the Sells header. I'm actually kinda neutral about having this, personally I'd like to see what shops sold the item but don't exist anymore? Maybe? Idk maybe it's useless to the reader.

Option 2 is ridiculously cluttered when we could combine them like Option 3/4. I prefer Option 4 over Option 3 because it actually sounds much easier to implement than Option 3: If all rows are discontinued then... all rows show that distinction, no need to say "don't show current shops". However, Option 4's method of showing what shop is discontinued needs improvement. The colour is currently very dark on the eyes and it's hard to read the text. Either opt for a lighter, more opaque colour, or use a symbol instead. I'd prefer if we used a symbol () to denote a discontinued shop, with an explanation underneath the table.

I don't see the advantage of displaying (live) shops that used to sell an item. It could cause confusion and would mean we have to add an extra layer of distinction in the table. What we should be doing is updating the Update history section of the relevant shop. H rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).pngChompy_bird_hat_ogre_marksman.pngCrystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 11:14, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Comment - Implementation of option 3/4/5 is about the same, they're all fairly easy. Colors was just an example, stole them from one of the removed item header things. For shops that used to sell an item, I don't think they need to be differentiated from removed shops on the item page? I was more worried about items that were removed from the game, that were sold by a shop that still exists like the Coal bag. Seers headband 2 chathead.png Elessar2 (talk) 12:01, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Option 4 - ulTDJP1.pngTalk 11:42, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Option 3 or 4, All - My vote for the first question on how to display shops on item pages is either option 3 or option 4, as the other options add too much clutter and option 5 is not distinct enough for a regular user to notice. For option 4 we could do with this colour code (#FFB6B6) which is easier on the eyes (on non-dark mode wiki at least).

If we're going to implement a way for item pages to have stores that used to sell that item, I don't see why we shouldn't also implement a way for store pages to display what items it used to sell, therefore my vote on question two is "all". - Sinister clown face chathead (male).png Tzar Talk 12:33, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Just tested the colour code #FFB6B6 on dark mode - not a good choice. We'll have to search for one that works for both, or use different ones for each of the modes. - Sinister clown face chathead (male).png Tzar Talk 12:37, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Comment - For option 4, opacity might help to represent it, perhaps in combination with a background-colour, for example:

Seller Location Cost Currency Base stock Members?
Azibo's Toy Stall Merchant district 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png
Diango's Toy Store Draynor Village 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png
Toy Store West of Cooks' Guild 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png
Sold by
Formerly sold by

- Rawny (talk) 16:27, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Option 1 and Item Page - I think that having the removed stores and/or stores that no longer sell the item in the list on item pages might get confusing, though option 4 may mitigate this. From that perspective, I'm leaning towards option 1. If the consensus goes with one of the other options, I would suggest styling the historical table/rows as per option 4 (even if the table is collapsed, as in option 3) - I think it would be important to ensure that the historical table/rows are styled differently unless they were under a separate heading. (In other words, I don't think option 2's note or option 5's symbol would be sufficient.) For the second part, I think that Update History should take care of items being removed from store pages, as per Haidro - otherwise we'd be duplicating information in the table but without additional details such as the relevant update or date - Rawny (talk) 16:27, 27 May 2019 (UTC)


Option 3 (if any of listed options) - So we can all agree Option 2 (the current implementation sans Lua errors) is too large and cumbersome but I'm seeing so much support for Option 4 which I feel like is not only visually inconsistent/busy but also large and cumbersome. It just seems weird to me to have a table with a legend like that (something I've never seen anywhere else) and is significantly different from how we usually signify data that is different from the rest of the table (Option 5). I feel as if Option 3 is succinct in its default view while still being explicit about what the difference in this data (compared to the main non-historical data) is.

There is also a sentiment of users being confused about the data if not explicitly (too explicitly imo) different from the other relevant data and while I agree it might cause confusion for some users, this information is highly specific and outside of editors for encyclopaedic purposes, no one previously has or will care about it. Not to mention anyone that might be interested in historical stores would be better served by an article listing all historical stores/items-that-were-historically-sold and or a SMW search rather than randomly navigating between the information on several different store pages or finding the list of pages that contain a Historical Store Template (which doesn't exist as a separate entity from the regular Store Line Template because of this change btw, so no one would ever find it in the first place).

I like the opacity suggestion as per Rawny more than anything but not on the coloured, legend'ed table as per Option 4. Maybe some combination of opacity and Option 5 (the traditional way of showing differing data entries) would be the way to go if looking for a one-table solution, at a stretch adding a non-coloured darkening to the row if it really doesn't seem obvious enough.

Example (try in both Dark and Light mode for comparison as current options look less than ideal in one or the other):

† Denotes discontinued stores that stock Toy horsey (brown). For help, see the FAQ.
Seller Location Cost Currency Base stock Members?
Azibo's Toy Stall Merchant district 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png
Diango's Toy Store Draynor Village 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png
Toy Store West of Cooks' Guild 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png

Choose OptionTalk-to MitcheII Slayer of Imps (skill: 1,668). . . . . . . . . . real life easter egg, :wowee: don't tell anyone though! Talk-to MitcheII Slayer of Imps (skill: 1,668) 04:59, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

If we do have the entries in the table (not that I'm massively in favour of it), I think this is probably the way to go with the design. Mitchell makes some good points re. the legend and such ^^ - Rawny (talk) 00:47, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Combination of 4 and 5 - Gray out the line if it's historical, but do add the symbol so that people with colour blindness can still easily distinguish current and historical stock. User talk:ThePsionic.png: RS3 Inventory image of User talk:ThePsionic ThePsionic Special:Contributions/ThePsionic.png: RS3 Inventory image of Special:Contributions/ThePsionic 06:45, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Comment - The wiki is kind of also a guide for noobs to just look up info they need, especially with /wiki in the game. It might be more annoying than beneficial to have old places anywhere in the actual list, even if in a different color or with a cross, no? I think it's actually the trivia section that should mention Diango used to sell toy horsies or whatever item, and probably nowhere else, especially since the whole point of dynamic lists seems to be that they show you only current info. Just my two cents. wprMTIq.pngc1CzvWw.png12:30, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

You are raising a good point regarding the benefits of this to the end-users. But I still believe we should somehow have these historical items/shops displayed somehow and somewhere on the pages. I like the trivia section idea - but what do we do when there's too many items to list in the trivia section? Do we just keep going? - Sinister clown face chathead (male).png Tzar Talk 19:31, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, true. Maybe collpasible in trivia? This item historically appeared in a number of shops (expand list)? idk tbh wprMTIq.pngc1CzvWw.png 05:45, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

None - I agree with comments like Haidro that it may confuse readers. We sometimes forget how dumb people can be when they read the wiki. For example, when we use {{floornumber}}, people change it to the American floor convention all the time, even though it very clearly states not to. You would be surprised at how often this happens. I think if we include any option, even something like option 4, people will get confused. Furthermore, even something like option 4 will unnecessarily clutter the page. It's not efficient for a noob player looking for where to buy an item to have a list of places that used to sell it. I think that just putting any relevant info in the trivia section or update history is sufficient. Tzar's right that that may get complicated too if there's a lot of historical items, but I'm not sure if that'll be a problem yet and then we can cross that bridge if we get to it. Unfortunately, it seems to be the best option right now. ɳex undique 01:59, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

None, but if we are going to add it in the table it should be VERY clear - Like, grayed out, and crossed out. Just to make sure no one skims the article and gets misinformed.

† Denotes discontinued stores that stock Toy horsey (brown). For help, see the FAQ.
Seller Location Cost Currency Base stock Members?
Azibo's Toy Stall Merchant district 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png
Diango's Toy Store Draynor Village 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png
Toy Store West of Cooks' Guild 150 Coins 100.png Coins 10 F2P icon.png

--LiquidTalk 16:36, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

I don't think we need to strike out, the colour change is enough and striking out could give the wrong impression. That being said, I think the wording should change to :"† Denotes discontinued stores that might not currently be available in game. For help, see the FAQ.". While it won't apply in most cases, there are stores that do come around again (funnily enough, Toy Store is returning this month). H rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).pngChompy_bird_hat_ogre_marksman.pngCrystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 01:50, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Support 3, Oppose 1 and 2 - i always vote 'yes' for adding historical information but i don't think readers should be forced to see it mixed with current info. Raven (blue).png Crowborn (Talk) 06:23, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Support 3 with elements of 4/5 - Similar to how we have drop tables set up to filter out members' items, perhaps have a filter that's on by default that hides discontinued shops/items. Toggling off the filter would show the discontinued shops/items but also have them visually obvious that they're discontinued (grayed out, no links, etc). Having the filter on by default on helps eliminate the random anon from following a dead trail, and having the filter means we can keep the historical data for the sake of being thorough. Badassiel 08:33, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Closed - The general consensus was that Mitchells proposal was the best (Grey out lines and add symbol) so that will be implemented. Seers headband 2 chathead.png Elessar2 (talk) 14:10, 18 September 2019 (UTC)