Forum:Hilite custodians

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Forums: Yew Grove > Hilite custodians
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This thread was archived on 15 November 2010 by Haloolah123.

The only reason I support hilites at all is because it makes it easier to identify users who have access to certain rights and who can perform various maintenance tasks. I feel it is useful to be able to identify the most recently active sysop in the recent changes because often asking them directly on their talk pages will get a faster response than posting on AR. These same arguments also apply to custodians. Users may find it useful to find the most recently active custodian and ask them directly to do things, or ask them questions about what they do.

I realise that there will probably be multiple suggestions about what color they should be, and rather than everyone blurt them out, just add it to this list so it is at least organized:

  1. Dark green
  2. Grey
  3. Editors choice -Sysop green, crat blue, any not assigned to bots.(see below at Degen's post)
  4. This weird faded red color...just to add an option.
  5. Silver
  6. Another Gray
  7. Dark Gray
  8. #993300

List of people who don't want the hilite if it is added

Please place your name here if you don't want the hilite if it is added. This is because custodians can't change the hilite-making css, so can't change it if an admin gives it to them. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 15:35, November 1, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Support - With color 1 as nominator. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 22:54, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Support (with condition) - Per Psycho. I don't really care what color, but that one looks good. My condition is that it's optional (because I don't want one). HaloTalk 22:57, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

All hilites are optional as I recall. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 22:58, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
K, just making sure. HaloTalk 22:59, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Small support - Per nom Achievements Coelacanth0794 Talk Contribs 23:03, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Supportive comment - Hey, that's almost the same shade of green as the custom hilite I give to myself! Anyway I support as long as it is opt-out, per the status quo. 222 talk 23:07, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral - No need. I don't get it. I die. --中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 23:12, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Because custodians would be unable to edit the hilite page; it's fully protected, so any of the custodians that would not want it would have to request it be removed. ʞooɔ 23:46, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Bots can't edit the hilite page either, and yet we still hilite them. --LiquidTalk 23:49, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - This has been bugging me for awhile now. There isn't a formal project page for users to know what colour means this or that. Editors are not mindreaders and they certainly aren't in need of contacting someone with one or two minor additional rights to move a file, suppress a redirect, or use charmedit (charmedit). Albeit, I am against hilites, the dual use of movefile and suppressredirect does not qualify a user the need to be contacted, much less needed when we have 124 custodians, 40 sysops, and 3 bureaucrats. I would only ever consider hilites for the custodian usergroup if it had more of a use than moving files. The other reason I was against it is that you must have sysop rights to edit the proper MediaWiki page, even though you can just ask a user with the appropriate privilege to add or remove the user, I personally would never want to be on that list. If this passes, Rollbacks should obtain one as well considering the amount of edits required. Moving a file is no different than moving a page in essence. Once more, if a user can opt out of such a list, it becomes worthless, even if the argument is that they don't want to be contacted, just keep a list of users on a specific project page or put a Hilite key into the MediaWiki:Recentchangestext page so users know what colour means this or that. Ryan PM 23:48, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Support choice Any custodian/sysop/crat can choose any color not assigned to bots or other automated/semiautomated edits. Allowing ALL "entrusted with extra tools" editors to have any of the three colors that they choose will fully eliminate the AEAE arguments about hilites and show no favoritism to any group.--Degenret01 23:54, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Degen, I don't mean to be rude. But why are you "proposing" methods which are undermining the current system? This won't do anything better, it would be better to just remove the hilites completely if you want to follow AEAE to such an extent. 222 talk 00:26, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Support 1, Strong oppose 3 - I think color 1 looks the best. Now, number 3 wouldn't work, because it would completely defeat the purpose of hilites in the first place. No hilites are preferable to having random hilites, because then the hilite would lack any kind of meaning and would confuse the users who are actually looking for someone to go to for help. --LiquidTalk 00:06, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral - Do custodians really need a hilite? I personally don't see a point, but i guess it could be used to help find someone to move a file. I wouldn't get the hilite because i don't see the point but other people might like to. Oh and Oppose number 3, no hilites would be better than that. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 00:09, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Not necessarily, but from a logical standpoint most people who are custodians would be pretty well-rounded and hopefully somewhat on the track to sysop, meaning they should be able to help answer general questions, not just move files and stuff.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Haloolah123 (talk).

Strong oppose all - Why? on Forum:Remove usergroup hilites the main reason not to remove the hilites is because people will know where to go for information and things only admins can do. As custs can't really do more people need, the hilite is not needed. And please don't say that people may want to ask a cust to clean up Category:Speedy move candidates, as at atleast the 2 newest serious RFAs lots of people say the speedy delete category is checked often enough already. As speedy move is possible for more people, this category is of course less often filled. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 00:35, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Strong Oppose all - I had a feeling we would get to this point and decided I oppose it. In all honesty, I don't see the reasoning behind hiliting Custodians because they don't essentially have any extra tools. In my opinion it's a supped-up rollbacker. Another thing I saw above is how bots can't remove hilites or something. This is irrelevant because bots don't have a sense of color and it doesn't matter at all that they have one except showing that they have been embraced by the community as an approved bot.

I love how this whole hilite issue started as a "Take away hilites, it breaks AEAE" to a "Let's give out more hilites because we need to!" It's ridiculous, truly and utterly. Custs really don't deserve one in my opinion, we just added it because people wanted to have an extra tool or a title. The whole tier of "Custodian" is unneeded, so I see no reason why they should have a hilite at all, or why the tier was added still. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 01:06, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Rollback and custodian are way different. Rollback is an extension of revert, custodian is a completely different maintenance tool. Custodians have quite a few of the most commonly used maintenance tools (excluding deleting pages). HaloTalk 01:50, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - If they want help they can add {{m}} can't they? It's not like we have a long list of abilities like admins do. It's just not neccessary. I mean, that's like highliting rollbackers so we can contact them to revert vandalism :S As for the 'help' in general argument, why can't they just contact an administrator? Admins generally know the most about editing and policies anyway. (Say AEAE and I'll get my NubTenderiser out) I mean, we dont make just anybody admins but we do make anybody with a few editing reqs a custodian. And we DO have a lot of admins floating around the RC. Even just putting 'somebody help?' in your edit summary on your talk will definatelu get noticed by someone that can help. - [Pharos] iPhone Edit 01:18, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Just incase this does go through, can we have one half green one half blue? Just to signify that were cooler than both of them put together. - [Pharos] iPhone Edit 01:18, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Yes! Of course! Every usergroup needs a showoffy/highlight(hilite)/i-am-better-than-other-users! And because custs just own so incredibly much, we just have to get those combined. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 01:46, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
Let's just give Pharos a rainbow hilite that says "I'm better than you" and move on with our lives. HaloTalk 01:47, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
=D really!? It's like saying I'm so much cooler than you that you get blinded just by looking at my name :D - [Pharos] iPhone Edit 01:53, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
oooh i want it too! Me! Me! Me! i wanna be a showoff like all admins that have hilites too! and i wanna be a much bigger [email protected]@ JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 02:51, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
No. Go away, I'm more important. - [Pharos] iPhone Edit 05:38, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
SniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniffSniff JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 13:51, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - to everyone who wants the hilites removed: Let's all support the half green half blue suggestion by degen. If we do, people will see how incredibly showoff stuff hilites are and maybe realise they should be removed. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 01:46, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

The above was not serious, just incase you didn't notice. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 02:51, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Per above. In regards to option three, I have no idea why a person in support of removing hilites for AEAE-purposes would think that's anything that resembles a good idea. First, it would defeat the purpose of hilites by making the colour-code irrelevant. Second, and most importantly, it would turn hilites into something cosmetic rather than informative, which would decimate AEAE to such a great extent I'm getting a headache from thinking about it. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 02:37, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

then don't think about it, Obeyz mai rulzzzz!!! MUHAHAHA!!!(or something like that) JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 02:51, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Support on 1 basis - Please do not use dark green, since alot of scripts used by users to show their own name as a hilite is this exact colour... May I suggest a darker blue in comparison to a regular user? RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 17:09, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Question - Number 3 confused me. When I read it, what I understood was a different color being suggested here. Reading other peoples comments, it looks like they understood it to be allow users to have whatever color hilites they want. Which one is it? bad_fetustalk 19:21, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

That was just Degen's suggestion, which is basically dispelling the aura around specific hilites, but completely defeats the purpose of people having them to distinguish staff/helpers/bots/crats/sysops/possibly custodians. HaloTalk 19:26, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
Oh. I should have read it more carefully. bad_fetustalk 19:31, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
It wasn't your fault. Degen's suggestion was originally number 3 but someone thought it was a neat idea to move it from number 3 to number 6, presumably because it wasn't a serious suggestion, so I moved it back. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 20:41, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Conditional support - Another color plawks. Someone can easily mix the colour of sysops and custiodians, and grey can easily become hard to see on white background of recent changes, depending on the monitor setup. bad_fetustalk 19:31, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Suggest one? HaloTalk 19:33, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
Meh, a dark shade of gray should be fine. bad_fetustalk 19:53, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Extremely strong support - Great idea. I'm not being sarcastic. Maybe grey... Or what Degen said. ajr 19:56, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

How would that not defeat the purpose? If they just became random, it wouldn't distinguish anyone...maybe that's what you want? HaloTalk 19:58, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
But you wanted to remove all hilites, why are you Xtremely strong supporting this then? Just to let more peoples be equal?
By hiliting these users as well, adminship becomes less of a big deal because even more people have pretty names. And this could serve just as good as a purpose and the current hilite does. ajr 20:44, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't matter - But if we do decide to give them one, I say it should be one of the grey variants since that is the colour we made their usergroup crown. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 04:27, November 1, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - I think of custodians as just users with a few extra nifty abilities, but nothing that vastly different from regular users. Sysops and bots are quite different from regular users. Farming cape (t).png Lil cloud 9 Talk 11:54, November 1, 2010 (UTC)

That is a terrible way of looking at it. Sysops are just regular users, with some extra tools. So are custodians, they just happen to have a couple less tools. If we are going to hilite sysops, why not custodians as well? ajr 13:28, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
Indeed, if anything that statement by Lil Cloud proves that some people thing sysops are different, when in fact we are not. A couple extra tools does not make us special and I feel quite bad that such a good editor would think we are different from regular editors.--Degenret01 13:42, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

Notice - Please add your name to the list above if you are a custodian and don't want the hilite. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 15:35, November 1, 2010 (UTC)

That won't matter if we don't get consensus...but whatever I guess. HaloTalk 16:17, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
No offense, but I find that list to be an attempted "whinge" and trying to cannibalize this thread to show that you don't like hilites. That is just my opinion and it may be wrong. 222 talk 05:38, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
There is enough support that it is possible the custs get hilites. I added the list just if people don't want the hilite. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 18:31, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Per Lil cloud 9. I don't really see a need to distinguish custodians from regular users. It's not like you can go to them for help deleting a page or blocking a vandal. Suppa chuppa Talk 01:34, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Why don't we let custodians vote if they want it or not? If only 5 custodians out of 124 custodians want the hilite, it really doesn't help anymore. It will just make people think "huh? whats this?" And it will need explaination to evryone who wants to know. Then, it really only has disadvantages. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 18:31, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

No, that defeats the purpose. Everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion and make it heard. It's like having only the administrators vote on something that affects them directly. ʞooɔ 18:34, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
It is not only custs, it is letting the custs vote in a subpage of this forum, and if only <5 of them want the hilite the discussion can be closed, as it will only create confusion.(i will, if it is ok, place a message on every cust's talk that he might want to vote) JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 19:12, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
What about future custodians? Or what if custodians change their mind? If you let them "vote" on whether or not they want it then that means that the option is tehre, and if it is there it should always be tehre. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 20:20, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
Ok, what u want, i don't care anymore if you screw up teh policy of equal treatment and we hilite everyone except teh new people, who we are trying to let tehm stay on teh wiki. Wahtever the final outcome will be, i don't want teh hilite in tehre[sic]. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 21:05, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose #3 - If, let's say "Bob" was a custodian and wanted 'crat blue, newbies would go "GIMME ADMIN POWERS PLZ". And, it's too confusing. --中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 02:41, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

Wut? what's that about? Do you see any "newbies" at current crats asking about ADMIN POWERS PLZ? Then what's the point of saying that? JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 21:05, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
I meant it creates too much confusion. --中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 01:56, November 11, 2010 (UTC)


This request for closure is complete A user has requested closure for Hilite custodians. Request complete. The reason given was: As we don't count votes but listen to reasons, i think this could be closed. It is entirely useless to hilite users who can almost do nothing more than regular users, as hilites are to show who can help people with specific right-needing actions. to return to my point ofconsensus/reasons: this is a good enough reason to close this in my opinion. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 12:12, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - There is no consensus to hilite the custodian usergroup. HaloTalk 17:50, November 15, 2010 (UTC)