Forum:Guides and NPOV

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Forums: Yew Grove > Guides and NPOV
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This thread was archived on 27 April 2010 by Liquidhelium.

I was recently reading through some of the Shipping articles on Bulbapedia, and I saw a very nice template. It's called Template:Ship, and it says that, because Ships are usually speculation, they may contain POV.

I then thought to myself, isn't that a problem we sometimes have with guides? So why not make a template like Template:Ship? It could look something like this:

File:Example.jpg|30px This article is a guide. As guides are usually biased, they may sometimes be biased.

I couldn't really decide on what image to use.
Note that this is an example. The aesthetics and wording aren't very good, but I'm proposing the idea of a template, not this one per se.

Proposal: Add a template (like the one above) to warn readers that guides might contain some POV. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 21:38, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Support - As nom. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 21:38, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Weak oppose - That template looks too unsightly. I would prefer a template that is rectangular. Besides aesthetics, I think it is obvious that guides are written from the author's point of view. Anyone willing to follow a guide is acknowledging that he is following the author's point of view. The wording of the template doesn't say much either. "As guides are usually biased, they may be biased"? Really now? That sentence is trying to tell users that guides are biased by saying that they are biased... I don't think it's a very good logical proof. --LiquidTalk 21:52, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

I think he just made that as an example, I think he is proposing the idea of it. It can be changed to something that looks better. scoot4.pngscooties 21:56, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, it was an example. I have never been well-known for being good at wording things or making things look good. It's an example. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 21:57, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
I don't have much reasons to oppose besides a slight conviction that guides are obviously biased, so there is no need to warn users about it. As such, I have changed my vote to weak oppose, if the template presented is merely an example. --LiquidTalk 21:59, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
I've changed the wording in the proposal to show that it's about the idea.
Of course this is pretty obvious. However, this could also stop the endless discussion about how strongly guides should be POV, by simply telling the reader that there is POV on the page. Yay for bad wording again. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 22:06, February 27, 2010 (UTC)


Support - Wording or no wording, the template will be useful and easy to implement. Ruud (talk)(Suggest me naems) 22:01, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

oppose The template will lessen peoples will to actually remove the pov, or could even get some to say "pov is okay to add, I will just add the template to this page". Getting rid of pov should be one of our 101 priorities here.--Degenret01 22:06, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

But aren't guides always POV? This template would serve as a warning for that. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 22:08, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
Guides can give the options to complete the task. Some of it may have POV but it shouldn't totally. scoot4.pngscooties 22:09, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
That's why it should say "may contain" Wink Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 22:18, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Weak oppose per Liquidhelium. It isn't needed. White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 16:14, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Slight support - I just think it'd be good to signify if an article is a guide. Chicken7 >talk 06:16, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - It would probably encourage players to write in NPOV format for guides and doesn't really help anything in anyway whatsoever. If you think that NPOV should be slightly allowed in guides, wouldn't the style guide be the proper place to start?? Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 04:36, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral leaning towards support - While the style guide doesn't allow POV guides can be hard to write in NPOV as people write from personal experience and selecting NPOV wording can be tricky. Example: let's say for example you'd need good magic defence for something "Black dragonhide armour is recommended" is a POV to me, for while you may recommend it I'd recommend Karil's for it. While possible to write stuff in NPOV it can indeed take awhile to plot out a NPOV statement for guides can take awhile due to all guides being from players experiences and therefore their points of view. Korasi's sword.png Archmage Elune  TalkHS Void knight deflector.png fetus is my son and I love him. 05:18, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Notice of Intent - Unless more support/opposition appears, I plan to close this in a few days with no consensus. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 12:39, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Wait a second. I thought all guides are supposed to be POV? It's near impossible to write a NPOV guide. It was written with the writer's opinion on the best course to take, which is in my opinion, what 99% of readers want. Most people a lazy and don't want to make choices. They want direct instructions on what to do. We can keep all our articles NPOV, but our guides should definitely not have to be strictly NPOV. Chicken7 >talk 13:55, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - You can't expect every article on a wiki everyone can edit to be NPOV. Simply stated, our biased point of view is what distinguishes us from other fansites, which are IMO, boring and unrelenting to the point where I feel like it's just a monotonous myriad of guides. Take Sal's realm, for example. Most of the guides are written by the same people(s), and their tone/vocabulary/word usage is almost always the same for every single guide. Now take our Wiki, we have thousands of unique editors contributing to thousands of unique articles, every article's "personality" or flair is different, that's what makes our Wiki stand out from all the rest. Having this template would not only be redundant, but would serve as a dis-service to common sense, something people should keep in mind when reading anything they see on the Internet. Just my three cents. 69.236.98.172 02:55, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - No changes will take place. --LiquidTalk 20:34, April 27, 2010 (UTC)