Forum:Flash

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This thread was archived on 20 March 2011 by Liquidhelium.

Since the Q&A to players, we know that we lack in the calculator department. The other sites can use flash (some don't) to make their calcs. So why don't we try some ourselves?

I asked Wikia if the would install this extension but, because of the big red warning, I got a 'no'.

BUT I was told that we could have flash things using the verbatim tags and, as seen here, it works.

Now to be able to mange these files, it would be very helpful to have the files types .swf and .fla be able to upload to the wiki. The .swf is the flash file and the .fla is the what is used by the program that makes .swf (kind of like the source code). Neither of these could be used through [[File:Flash.swf]] or [[File:Flash.fla]] as the MediaWiki software doesn't know what to do with such files (it would just link to them). This would be used to make the files available to everyone and and allow them to be edited (wiki-like).

To be able to use them, we use the verbatim tags with transcludes everything on a MediaWiki page (no limits on what tags can be used) like [[MediaWiki:Flash test]]. And to help organise the MediaWiki pages, we could make a main flash page like MediaWiki:Flash and make subpages of that like MediaWiki:Flash/Fishing calculator. Of course making sure that that MediaWiki page is not used in anyway by checking Special:AllMessages.

AND this could also be used to make our own flash stuff (ex. adverts for events).

Proposal

  • Enable ability to upload .swf
  • Enable ability to upload .fla
  • Allow use of flash


I don't know nor expect many people here to know how to make a flash anything but this would be a great option to our information arsenal.

Discussion

Strong support - As nominator and I am also able to make these flash documents. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 22:30, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

Support - I don't know how to use flash, but if you do, and you're able to get the things working, then sure. Achievements Coelacanth0794 Talk Contribs 22:34, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Let's just hope we don't get some flash vandalism. Wink svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 22:36, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Sounds good. 222 talk 23:14, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

Support - No idea how these things work, and I also fear that could be the case with everyone on this wiki! Lol Chicken7 >talk 00:14, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Support - They work well, see here for an example, click on calculator. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 01:34, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - I have some issues with using Flash on a large scale when it seems that very few people on the wiki know how to use it. I also like uniformity, so I'm hoping that we either have all of our JS-y calcs be flash calcs, or none of them. If we do that we need to make sure that more people know how to make them. ʞooɔ 02:47, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - While I have no experience in Flash, as I currently see it, it appears that they must be verbatim from the MediaWiki namespace. Although we might be able to include a template that anyone with sufficient rights can edit, I don't see the advantage of using one over another. Flash isn't supported on all platforms, such as the iOS devices by Apple, as where Javascript is going to be more commonly had in browsers. I'd like to have calculators that are on par with Tip.it and RuneHQ, but until we have many coders with experience in Python, Flash, or Perl it's going to be a long road to improving the calculators. Also Uberfuzzy updated RSHighscores from what TehKittyCat sent through Special:Contact a few weeks ago for a slightly relevant topic. Ryan PM 03:15, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Who plays RuneScape on iOS devices? ⁓ Hello71 03:54, March 6, 2011 (UTC)
JavaScript and Java are two completely unrelated languages. However one could play RuneScape on their iPhone with a one of a few applications that control your system unit and mirror the image onto your device. Think of it like Remote Desktop Connection on your Windows PC. Ryan PM 05:29, March 6, 2011 (UTC)
Teamviewer is another free one. Ive been using it quite a bit actually :3 Concerning the problem with a lack of knowledgeable users, maybe you and some other coders could make a few help pages on it? I understand that some of them are incredibly complex and a help page will do practically nothing, but creating calculators doesnt require detailed knowledge of every aspect. If you got some people started and answered a few quesrions every now and then, we'd eventually get a large group of semi-skilled coders to work on the calculators and gain mor and more experience. (Bear in mind i have absolutely no knowledge of this type of coding and i could just be spouting giberrish :P)- [Pharos] iPhone Edit 10:42, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

Weak support - Yes, we need better calculators, and this will help a lot, but the points Ryan made above about compatibility and editors knowing how to make these calculators stop me from fully supporting. Matt (t) 03:53, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Support if and only if basic HTML calculators are provided as alternatives. These could be manually synced on a regular basis from the actual calculator template to prevent CSRF attacks. ⁓ Hello71 03:54, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

Support only if the flash is only used for things like calculators, and NOT allowed for things like demonstrating how a potion is made by showing a guam leaf flying into a vial or something stupid like that. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 05:34, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

lol XD 222 talk 06:01, March 6, 2011 (UTC)
amg dat wud b soooo kooooooooooooooolll!!!!11!2one!!1 Chicken7 >talk 06:47, March 6, 2011 (UTC)
That's dumb... now an animation of a knife flying in and ninja'ly slicing a pineapple with an explosion at the end would be awesome. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 08:53, March 6, 2011 (UTC)
http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/6200/ninjaknifepineappleboom.gif JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 17:29, March 6, 2011 (UTC)
Don't lie to us! That's just an animation of a knife wobbling slightly, a pineapple mysteriously splitting into half a dozen pieces, and the screen getting spamed by something orange. Try again Lol, 222 talk 05:08, March 7, 2011 (UTC)
Itz a flazh animashun, and nao shaddap k? u maekin me sad Sniff JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 07:53, March 7, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - We are trying to redevelop JavaScript calculator system, lets try that first. With the Calculator namespace we are starting over, requiring quality and completeness. A few days ago, I found a way to access the Hiscores data without RSHiscores, instead using JavaScript, so we don't have to wait on Wikia, and it should also work for the Adventurer's log and GEDB. Quarenon's Exchange Watch script is already using it for validating GEDB prices. Requiring Flash for calculators reduces who we can reach -- iOS devices and many school/workplace computers do not have Flash, and less wiki users likely know ActionScript(Flash) than JavaScript and wikitext, which limits who could improve them. - TehKittyCatTalk Wikian-Book 18:48, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - Flash calculators seem to add no functionality that JS calculators do not. Considering that very few people who know how to use Flash, this would end up being a project that no one would finish, and our calculators would be all over the place and not at all uniform. ʞooɔ 19:10, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - We don't have to have them replace the current or future calculators but have flash as an option for making a calculator. I don't see the harm in having an option. It can also be used for other things such as a coordinate finder. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 23:31, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - I would rather not have Flash advertisements of our events. Unless they're really good, they're lame, and, if they're really good, they'll slow down page downloads. Leftiness 00:46, March 7, 2011 (UTC)

Support - For things that can't absolutely be done with the methods we currently have. If we would be able to have a TT coord finder that would be great. And like Leftiness said, they should only be used where really needed. Not advertisements(we got enough already), nothing but the things where we REALLY need it. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 00:48, March 7, 2011 (UTC)

Is this ineffective? If not, and if Control+F searching is also ineffective, I expect it would be fairly easy to create a form at the top where the user enters his coordinates and it scrolls to the correct entry. Leftiness 07:52, March 7, 2011 (UTC)
It could be more effective as I use that for my clues but sometimes it has little to no landmarks. With this you could put in your coordinates for a map view and use the list for details. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 17:48, March 7, 2011 (UTC)
Yes. That is ineffective. We need an image where you just have to guess around where your clue scroll is, or a locator that only works with official treasure trails locations. With the flash locator we would probably be able to get what all other big fansites have, a good locator. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 19:30, March 7, 2011 (UTC)
Now, I'm confused about that. At Zybez, they just have a text description of how to use the tools. On RuneHQ, they have a description of how to use the tools, a table of coordinates, and a text description of where to look; they only have two pictures. Tipit is just like us, with a description of using the tools, a table of coorrdinates, a text description, and a picture of where to look for every clue. What's wrong with looking at the map, finding the general area, using a sextant to get close, and then looking at the picture? Do you want a zoom animation on that map before it fades to the picture of some guy standing where the clue is? Honestly, what could you expect out of a flash locator, and what "good locator" on which "big fansite" are you referencing? Leftiness 06:17, March 8, 2011 (UTC)
At the top of that tipit page you linked to is a button to their Coordinate Locator. Indeed, the other 2 sites removed their TT locator for some reason(I am sure Zybez had one, and I googled it, some people linked to their locator which is now a 404 error. So indeed, Tipit is the only site with a locator, but still. Why can't we get better calcs than other sites? That will get rid of the reputation of "good site with bad calcs". This is actually what we need. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 08:05, March 8, 2011 (UTC)
Look at the source; their locator is written in JavaScript and HTML. In Internet Explorer or vanilla Firefox, use the View menu at the top, or press CTRL+U in Chrome. Leftiness 23:39, March 8, 2011 (UTC)
Okay, then we should make something with JS too. I already said "nothing but the things where we REALLY need it." so if this is not one, and there is nothing else where it'd be useless, that would be a vote for "nothing but the things where we REALLY need it." for me. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 23:47, March 8, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose

  1. JavaScript done well should be able to handle things just fine.
  2. Flash is proprietary commercial software without an open standard. It is a good idea to use open standards as much as possible, as usually more people know how to use open standard software than proprietary software. (And, yes, JavaScript was originally proprietary but now conforms to the EcmaScript standard.)
  3. It is my opinion that Flash is more prone to malware than open standards software. In the past, Flash-based malware has resulted in fake ad banners that auto redirect user to suspect websites and, I believe, drive-by downloads of other malware. Are the RuneScape Wiki people up to the challenge of insuring that Flash submissions to the wiki are malware free?
  4. Elements of the upcoming, HTML 5 standard seem likely to be able to do what we would want Flash to do. Even if JavaScript is not completely satisfactory for what we want (which is unproven), it may be enough to get by until HTML 5 goes into widespread use.

Inelcirc 19:18, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Comment/Notice of intent - As I see it right now, this thread is essentially a no consensus. The supporters' arguments center around the addition of a new option. I also noted that most of the initial supporters seemed to have no idea what was going on, and supported because it "looked good," which doesn't quite hold up when examining other arguments presented. Several people have pointed out that Flash calculators do not provide any additional functionality that JavaScript calculators currently lack, meaning that Flash offers no inherent benefits. Furthermore, Flash compatibility issues were brought up (though I also question why someone would play RuneScape on an iPhone and question the compatibility of JavaScript, since that was an issue in other threads, for example tabber). If this thread does pass, then almost certainly Flash will have the limitation of being used for calculators only. If I have made egregious jumps in logic or severe misunderstandings, please correct them now. Thanks. --LiquidTalk 00:46, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

You guys do realize that I'm going to close it as no consensus unless you tell me I made an error in logic, right? So if nothing happens soon, I'll take your silence to be implied consent... --LiquidTalk 22:07, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Closed - It's been two days since my notice of intent, and no one seems to have any objection to my statement. Thus, there is no consensus and Flash will not be implemented. --LiquidTalk 00:03, March 20, 2011 (UTC)