Forum:Editing Under 13

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This thread was archived on 9 March 2009 by Soldier 1033.

Although I am entirely opposed to enforcing this on current members, I'd thought I would bring it to attention:

http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia:Terms_of_use#Membership

It's basically a Terms of Use of the Wikia in general to be 13+ to edit the wikia. There have been cases on other wiki's where active users have been blocked on this bases alone.

How are we to implement this on users here?

Bonziiznob Talk

09:06, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I think this is a case of RS:IAR, that we should follow, but it's a wikia rule, not a wiki rule... 09:11, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if we should implement it, and I am totally against it. Yes, it is a policy... but this is a Wiki for a video game... Plus, we have at least a couple experienced younger users that I know of that have already set their foot into this. Prayer.png Jedi Talk HS Log Tracker Summoning.png 09:14, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Here is a quote from the above link:

Date of Last Revision: January 1, 2009

Welcome to Wikia (the “Service” or “Site”), operated by Wikia, Inc. (the "Company"). By accessing or using our web site, you (the "User") signify that you have read, understand and agree to be bound by these Terms of Use ("Terms of Use" or "Agreement"), without regard as to whether you are a registered member of Wikia. We reserve the right, at our sole discretion, to change, modify, add, or delete portions of this Agreement at any time and without further notice. It is your responsibility to regularly check this page to determine if there have been changes to these Terms of Use and to review such changes.

PLEASE READ THESE TERMS OF USE CAREFULLY AS THEY CONTAIN IMPORTANT INFORMATION REGARDING YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS, REMEDIES AND OBLIGATIONS, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO LIMITATIONS AND EXCLUSIONS, AND A DISPUTE RESOLUTION CLAUSE THAT GOVERNS HOW DISPUTES WILL BE RESOLVED.

These Terms of Use apply to members and non-members alike. In order to use the Service, you must accept these Terms of Use. You may do so by (a) registering for membership with the Service and/or Company or (b) by actually using the Service. You may not use the Service and may not accept the Terms Use if (a) you are not of legal age to form a binding contract with the Company, or (b) you by law are barred from using the Service or accepting the Terms of Use.

Membership

While you may use this Service without registering for membership, membership in the Service is void where prohibited by law, and is intended solely for users who are thirteen (13) years of age or older. Any registration by anyone under 13 is unauthorized, unlicensed and in violation of these Terms of Use. By registering the Service or the Site, you represent and warrant that you are 13 or older and that you agree to and to abide by all of the terms and conditions of this Agreement.

If you choose to register for membership, in consideration of your use of the Site, you agree to maintain the security of your password and identification and to be fully responsible for all use of your account and for any actions that take place using your account.

The Company may terminate your account, delete your profile and any content or information that you have posted on the Service and/or prohibit you from using or accessing the Service for any reason, or no reason, at any time in its sole discretion, with or without notice.

Bonziiznob Talk

09:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Being under 13 myself, I think we should ignore this rule. I can't really see any point for it and I don't want to get blocked, plus I'm sure there are other helpful contributors who are under 13 as well. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  09:19, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

While I am for following rules, I am definitely against this one as it would shut out some great contributors to our site. And bonzi, I'm not sure that RS:IAR would apply in this case, since this isn't an editing rule/guideline but an actual wikia policy. Zaros tally.PNGBladeQuick chat button.png# 09:25, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I know, but it's a wikia rule, not a wiki rule from above. But, I am so confused on where to stand on this. I support all Wikia Rules, but we would lose lots of good contributors... ='( 09:31, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
As nice as it would be to bend the rules, it just can't happen here. I'd like to point out that this decision is not ours to make. This rule is part of the Wikia terms of use (end user license agreement) that everybody has to follow regardless of any situation. It is not a bendable "policy," it is a legal document. Numerous other websites have catches for users under the age of 13 to comply with the Child Internet Protection Act, some (like Wikia) completely deny user access to those under 13 so they do not have to worry about bookkeeping on such an issue. -Byte_Master bytesig2.png bytesig3.png 09:36, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Then I'm going on a wikibreak until I turn 13. Bye everyone, I'm not editing the wiki for a few months. I'll still be on IRC and the CC. Sorry, but I don't wanna get blocked. Bye. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  09:38, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Being under 13 myself, this is going to be very biased. I oppose because just because a user is under 13 does not mean that the user is immature or anything of that sort. This is a wikia rule, but.....idk, RS:IAR takes precedence here? C.ChiamTalk 09:40, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
I am personally against ignoring the rules. But, we must also remember that it's not our place to find underage users and report them to Wikia. If one is breaking these rules, they do so at their own discretion - it should be no concern of the RuneScape Wiki community. -Byte_Master bytesig2.png bytesig3.png 10:08, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
I Agree 10:12, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Agreed, it is not our personal responsibility to find underage users, let this instead be a reminder to the community of wikia policy. Zaros tally.PNGBladeQuick chat button.png# 10:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

This issue has been discussed in clan channel R S Wikia around 10:00 AM GMT today, where myself (Wejer), Byte Master and Name23423 have come to a reasonble conclusion on how to handle this dilemma without breaking official wikia policy. Or, a loop hole if you will. Essentially, what it boils down to is: Let's say that we "suspect" a user is under 13. We suspect this because the single user has "confessed" to be under 13. However, this is no absolute proof, because the person may be lying. We are to enforce the rule about "no under age", but in each case we need conclusive proof that a single user has violated policy. Because we are not "certain" that the single user has violated policy, then we cannot enforce that policy in each particular case. Because no bureucrat or sysop has the power to check someone's birth date, there is no way we can with complete certanity judge someone guilty of being under age. In a nutshell: We have no evidence, and therefore cannot judge someone under age. A magic scroll.png WejerFeather.png 10:22, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

You should all know that the rule is here to keep kids from giving personal information on the internet (C.O.P.P.A). It's just--to be blunt--to prevent kids from being raped by 50 year old predators. Either way, I oppose blocking people under 13, because the reason for banning kids under 13 is that they can't be trusted not to say "too much" about themselves. I can definitely trust most of our users under 13 not to say too much. I handled being under 13 on the wiki for a year (and a half of a year inactive) without saying much more than "My name is Elijah. I was born on September 9, 1995. I live in Massachusetts. If you want to see what I look/sound like IRL, go to this YouTube channel. I don't think that's terribly much personal info to tell my first name, birth date, state I live in, and show what I look like and what my voice sounds like.

InstantWinstonDragon 2h sword old.pngold edits | new edits

15:16, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I think that is a prime example as to why this rule might exist. 15:19, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Nice shot at my maturity -.- 17:53, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Sorry Instant. Not intended 0.0 18:21, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

As stated above, the rule is their because wikia is legally obligated to post the regulation. They're just covering their ass from a lawsuit. It's silly to enforce something like this in a community where many of our users are right around that age. Karlis (talk) (contribs) 16:27, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

You knew what you signed up for and what was in the ToS when you registered as a member of Wikia. Saying "I don't care about the rules, I wanna do what I want!" is immature and childish, not to mention that you should be blocked because you're underage. --{{SUBST:User:Gourra/Sig}} 18:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
It is each individual user's responsibility to create an account with accurate information, and that includes age. If they choose to lie about their age then they are doing it at their own risk. That is an issue between the user and Wikia, not us. Andrew talk 18:33, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Although I see this rule as one that was made by someone who didn't know what they were talking about, it's a site policy, and more importantly, a government policy. We need to follow it. What I suggest is that anyone who violates this policy by creating an account before they're 13 and is proved to be under age should be blocked until they are 13 years of age.

Of course, anonymous edits can't be held to this rule, because no personal information is kept (at least no more than visiting the site would give) without the editor specifically adding it to the page (which would be reverted almost immediately). Bots can't be held to this rule either - GEBot is only 9½ days old at the time of me writing this. ~Nightgunner5 talkTranshttp://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/runescape/images/8/8a/Botcrown.PNGhttp://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7190/skilliconfletching11.gif 18:35, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Interesting idea, but there's a major flaw: there is no way to prove someone's age online unless you actually know them. Andrew talk 18:38, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


#Wikia

[14:17:15] <ChristineV> Well, the issue of not being allowed to register @ Wikia under 13 has been brought up. In other instances this has warranted a block, and the users of the RuneScape wiki are trying to find a way around that rule, or want to knowingly disregard it...
[14:17:32] <ChristineV> Being discussed at: http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/User:Bonziiznob/Under_13
[14:18:09] <Ose> the thing is that as long as they just shut up wikia staff will leave them alone because they have no proof of their age
[14:18:52] <ChristineV> I was kinda hoping it'd never be brought up at all, but I know that they aren't going to stop talking about it until they reach some decision.
...
[14:33:10] <Ose> my advice: ignore the fact that the rule exists, but if staff comes along and blocks people, don't argue with them
Staff really doesn't want to get involved in communities if they don't have to, but that piece of advice is probably the best you will ever hear. If you guys don't attract attention to yourself, there will not be an issue. RS:IAR does not apply to this situation at all. IAR is just on this wiki (you know what I mean, other wikis may have it, but for us it only applies on RS wiki), however the Terms of Service are Wikia-wide. They apply no matter where you are. You cannot ignore things like that. I suggest this discussion just stop, and everyone goes about their business as if nothing happened, tbh. =| Christine 18:39, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Lucky I am turning 14 tomorrow :-D Miasmic Blitz icon.png Hapi007 Talk! Sign! . 18:43, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
It's simple to avoid. If nobody knows your age, there is no possible way to enforce this rule. It would be like putting a ban on smoking in your home... nobody would know if you didn't tell anyone. Karlis (talk) (contribs) 18:46, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Actually, you can smell it. :] Christine 18:53, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
You can't smell age over the internet. ;) ~Nightgunner5 talkTranshttp://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/runescape/images/8/8a/Botcrown.PNGhttp://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7190/skilliconfletching11.gif 19:06, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Maybe you' can't. Don't tell me you can't guess the ages of half the people here. >.> Christine 19:20, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Guessing and knowing are two very separate things. ^_^ Andrew talk 19:41, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

This is a good use of "Don't ask, don't tell", do not ask about someones age so they are not obligated to say and don't tell so no one is obligated to report it. It is not a true solution, but it works. - TehKittyCatTalk Wikian-Book 20:06, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Hey guys! I'm sorry, I didn't intend this to become something were users are stuck on what to side with. I just wanted to bring it to attention. I have no concern if this is protected, so it's removed from recent changes...

Bonziiznob Talk

20:33, 8 March 2009 (UTC)