Forum:Dungeoneering: Formula thread

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This thread was archived on 15 June 2010 by Calebchiam.

I think there should be a forum thread to discuss dungeoneering formulae.

For instance -- the formula for Prestige and regular points. I don't think anyone knows what it is for sure... people have ideas, so let's put them all in one place and maybe we can get a BETTER idea of what it is.

My current thoughts on how base points are calculated:

Base points = ( (prestige total)*(measure of how much you mine/smith/etc.) + (level)*(how many monsters you kill)*(1 + bonus from how many rooms you open) )/2

--Agamemnus 18:28, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

My current thoughts on how base points are calculated: - We don't put speculation on the wiki, we put facts. bad_fetustalk 19:49, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Which is why he's making a forum to discuss the correct formula. --Iiii I I I 19:57, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Comment The only thing I'm absolutely positive about now is that fishing, mining, gathering, and cutting do affect the value we get immensely. I just did a 2-player *level 9* dungeon with Prestige 13. We fished almost everything, cut, mined, trapped, and gathered everything. I did do most of the skilling, but my partner did most of the killing. Still, he received an enormous amount of exp (about 1500 base, 1700+ full: 4 levels for him), only about 200 less than me (2 levels for me -- to 30). I got 1309 for the floor, and 2180 for prestige 13 (2122 total). That leads me to these conclusions:

  • Prestige exp is definitely based on how much you skill.. perhaps it is simply based on a combination of your total exp gain and prestige level?
  • Your partner(s) gets a large share (90%?) of the exp you get (though this wasn't the case once.. my partner once got 1/5th my prestige even though he skilled and killed more; I think that was a bug)
  • Floor exp is very probably linked to how much you skill as well, but maybe more to how much you kill. (I killed very few NPCs in that last round)

I'm going to try to do a compete 2 player level 10 dungeon, making all herbs I can and fish everything -- we didn't get a chance to farm all the seeds, make all the vials, or make all the summoning pouches last time, but we did do a lot of other stuff. If the exp this next time exceeds the exp we got this time, then we'll know that one of farming/potion-making/summoning gives exp towards prestige.

It might be a good idea for someone to just record exactly how much damage they do in a round and/or how much exp they get in various skills in order to figure out precise formulas. --Agamemnus 05:55, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

  • This is a good idea, but I think we need to even define the variables that need to be reviewed in the first place and should be recorded. There is a combination of your prestige level, how many rooms you have explored, what resources you have gathered, and what "processing" steps are involved too (aka smithing ore mined, cooking fish caught, crafting hides/cloth found or obtained, etc.) It seems like there is also a cap on how much you can obtain through this method, as on the last several floors that I've soloed I have received the exact same total for prestige, so the trick here would be to find where that cap might be. --Robert Horning 18:00, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
Okay, so if you remember what was that number (the prestige exp) and what was your prestige (level, not total exp) on those floors? Was the prestige (level) the same throughout?--Agamemnus 18:11, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
Yes it was. I reset to a new prestige run and started over again at level 1 working my way back down again. That is actually a pretty good way to earn experience rapidly, although it does take time. Again, I'm having problems even knowing what the variables might be to look at here, much less try to get some sort of reporting mechanism going. I'm certainly willing to report what I'm doing, but I need to know what it is that I should be reporting for feedback here. --Robert Horning 13:12, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Doesn't this belong on the article's talk page? Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 20:28, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

I don't have a problem discussing this here in the Yew Grove, as it is something that could use a little extra shot in the arm in terms of more widespread community interaction. Still, it would be useful for at least a reference to this discussion on the skill article's main talk page. --Robert Horning 20:39, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Has anybody noticed that you get the same amount of floor exp and prestige exp the first time you complete that floor? (Is there any evidence that disproves this?) Lil cloud 9 22:54, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

Do a dungeon with minimal skilling and minimal fighting (don't take on monsters in dead-ends and where the connecting doors are key or skill doors) and see how much exp you get. If it's "normal", then you are right... personally I don't think this is the case, because in 3-player medium-sized dungeon levels that I redo, I get a lot more experience than my first run-through solo. Though, perhaps this observation doesn't count since my second times were mostly not solo run-throughs. --Agamemnus 18:18, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Comment, though really everything on here is a comment - I think that presige has somthing to do with how you've done on average on that floor. And yes, I have gotten diffent numbers on the first run though a floor. --FarxodorTalk 22:58, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

My observations: The floor experience is identical every time you do it, regardless of whether you skill or not. Your prestige xp = the floor xp of the deepest floor you've done. Those two numbers are added together, then divided by two (a.k.a. Averaged) to get the base xp. The only things at all that seems to affect either of these numbers is how many people are doing the dungeon and the size. When doing levels with a friend or two, the numbers are still static, although they're dramatically higher. ~Wrthlss Noob (10 May 2010)

There were comments about this on the live Q&A:

  • "The base XP is first of all based on the floor number, but then modified by a lot of factors that try to determine how much time we expected that specific dungeon to take to complete. There is unfortunately a bit too much maths going on here to fit it on the reward interface. " - Mod Benny on p4
  • "The base XP is based on what floor you completed, but then adjusted based on how long we expect that particular dungeon to be completed in." - Mod Benny on p8

So it sounds like the floor xp is a function of both the floor number and the "complexity" of the floor (which I think depends on more than just what complexity and size it is, though these are significant factors). I believe the prestige xp is the same function, but with your prestige input instead of the floor number (which is why they're the same when your prestige equals your current floor number). Stewbasic 08:32, May 22, 2010 (UTC)


analysis

there is a massive amount of variation in the exp awarded for a particular floor. instead of saying the base exp is given for a floor, then modified by the mapping of the dungeon... set rawexp=F(floor layout, rooms opened, monsters killed). I don't suppose we will ever know the exact formula for this. then, dungeon exp=rawexp*(G(floor)+G(prestige))/2*visible modifiers. ...where G(x) appears to be to the order of x^3, though it's slower at low X. ...specifically, it can be approximated by: (x+13)^3/14^3, assuming that the multiplier for f1 is one.

I don't think rawexp depends on rooms opened or monsters killed, because these are included in the visible modifiers, and also the above quotes suggest that it only depends on how long the dungeon is "expected" to take you, not on how much you actually do. Stewbasic 05:34, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - It would seem that there are too many variables involved for any of us to attempt to derive a formula. No further action will be taken. C.ChiamTalk 14:03, June 15, 2010 (UTC)