Forum:Drop Rate % system to be implemented

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Forums: Yew Grove > Drop Rate % system to be implemented
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This thread was archived on 9 April 2010 by Calebchiam.

As I already know, RS players have had the nagging question pertaing to drop rates and I have found a viable solution. On FFXIclopedia, there is a drop rate system in place updated by players when an item does/doesn't drop and from what source. I would be happy to help implement this but have my additions so far have been quickly deleted.

Elvaan Coastie 21:48, March 3, 2010 (UTC)


Comments

Support - I would recommend creating one in your user sandbox, if you dont have one make one here --

Runecrafting MythbustermaTalk   HSCabbage.png<= BRASSICA PRIME

22:29, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - The problem with a drop rate system is that it is difficult to keep it updated. Charm logs are implemented because they are easy to handle. It is much harder to keep track of drops than charms, since drops typically aren't stackable. Also, users who receive no good drops may not be inclined to come and update the logs, so the logs may be overrepresentative of the chances of receiving a drop. This is especially true for monsters that aren't killed frequently or for drops that are exceedingly rare, such as the Divine and Elysian sigils. Drop logs just present too big logistical difficulties to implement. --LiquidTalk 22:42, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Yeah, even with charms there have been problems with people only uploading their logs when they get rare charms. Logging every drop, including unstackable ones and those that might not get picked up, would be a nightmare. I wish it were feasible, but at this point, I really don't see a way we can make this work. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 22:47, March 3, 2010 (UTC) 

Comment - Honestly, i do see where you are coming from...but I still think it would be a good idea, as it becomes more and more developed it would actually become acurate.....-- 23:00, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Elvaan Coastie - The system in place on FFXIclopedia has monster drop rate % on spawns that take 24 (Earth hours) to pop. Nothing on RS takes that long. The above comment is more accurate, as more time passes, the drop rate will become steadily more accurate. Citing an example of a % drop on a 21-24 hour spawn in Behemoth's Dominion: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Behemoth

Weak Oppose - I think it's fine now. Especially since Jagex changes drop rates a bunch. And more vandalism...and people just accidentally messing up. I'd rather just leave it. --HaloTalk 01:01, March 4, 2010 (UTC) P.S. You put '''Comment''', not your name, but put your signature at the end.

Comment - You might want to read Forum:Rare,Very Rare, Ultra Rare..Etc. A drop log system like this was already discussed there. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 14:55, March 4, 2010 (UTC)


Comment - The link: Forum:Rare,Very Rare, Ultra Rare..Etc has one thing different, "solid" or "lottery" drop rates, i.e. 1 in 10 or 1 in 1000, Whereas the one on the FFXI site uses percents. "Behemoth has a 95.5% chance drop rate of hides on 'each' kill." Percentitle rates also apply to things such as Ogre Coffin drops as well. Percents would, in my opinion, be more accurate given time than a solid rate.Elvaan Coastie 02:11, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

It would be if everything worked like it was supposed to, what I'm saying is that it won't. Which makes it more trouble than it's worth. --HaloTalk 02:21, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
FFXI has over a million people playing, if mis-informing the drops on purpose was to occur, FFXIclopedia would've seen in many times over. Since I've played for a few years, the drop rates have never been more than probably .2% off, and that's a stretch. Pertaining to the "Jagex changes drop rates" comment, percents would change to reflect this. I.E. if other players suddenly went from 25% to 10% drop, over time wiki would change. I'll admit it wouldn't be instantaneous, but I feel accuracy is more valuable.Elvaan Coastie 02:53, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
The minute Jagex changes the drop rate, the whole drop rate system here would be outdated and therefore wrong. We would have no imediate way to know it has changed. Better to not give them the info then give them good info for a length of time we don't know and have it turn false. scoot4.pngscooties 02:43, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
The last part of my comment reflects this change, all MMO's have had drop rates changed at some point and noone knows but the developers, however, player input (like FFXI) will show the changes. Players believe drop rates have been changed because there is no set information pertaining to a drop rate. So everyone's experience has been different and such believe their experience on those drops are accurate (such as draconic visages and claiming 1:10 kills and 1:20k kills.)Elvaan Coastie 02:52, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
The problem is that vandalism could become a major issue. I can see something like this possibly working in the distant future, but I think that perhaps we should wait and see what becomes of the charm logs once we have the submissions system in place. I'm not entirely sure that there is any really good way to do this, but it is my view that validates submissions are the way to go. However, it may turn out to be a total disaster, which is why I think we should wait and see how charm logs work out. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 05:55, March 5, 2010 (UTC) 
I see what you mean but, you know, no time like the present? And besides if it fails, we'll just throw it out and go back to the old system (which really is a turd >.<). Also, to prevent vandalism we could modify the AJR bot to counter-vandalise the drop logs -- 06:01, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
The idea of counter-vandalism by bots is exactly what I was referring to above. The submissions system to be implemented is exactly that: submissions are not added to the main log until TLULbot has checked them over. You can feel free to keep your own logs on your userpage. Until bot-checking has been tried and seems to work, I doubt if the community will be ready to adopt a drop log for the entire wiki. The biggest problem perhaps isn't vandalism, but just distortion due to circumstances we can't control. Picture this: You are a new player, and you've found this really cool site called the RuneScape Wiki. It even has logs of just how often something is going to drop a certain item. Hmm, you just got a few coins. Is it notable enough to add to the log? Probably not. Oh, wait! You just got a shield left half! You've got to upload this! — Do you see why this could be a problem? I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 18:45, March 6, 2010 (UTC) 
Indeed i do but dont you think that we could you know, add some policy to read before updating it, even if they dont read it....but we could modify the bot to check for a tendency towards rarer drops
P.S. Why do yall say its a bad idea "now" its gotta start sometime if its gonna happen 16:24, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Well i would like to say that about the previous debate....lets leave it out of this...lets try again because this could really be something....and if the drop rate DOES change and we KNOW about it, then we can fix it you know...--

Runecrafting MythbustermaTalk   HSCabbage.png<= BRASSICA PRIME

04:58, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose for now - The vandalism aspect is too large for me to ignore for now; we'll see how well tLULbot does at maintaining the charm logs, then maybe in future we can implement something like this. Personally, I keep my own drop logs (out of date at the moment, I have like 30+ tasks to add) which could help this if and/or we implement it. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 13:32, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Vandilism is usually very easy to spot so it won't really be bad. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 08:59, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - While there are well known averages for certain drops, these cannot be guaranteed. The simple system of: Common, Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare, and Extremely Rare; cover the basics of this type of system. I will disagree when someone tells me it's 400 kills for a Dragon pickaxe when it can take me 2000 kills to get it. Charm drop rates are easier to calculate as they are on a secondary drop list as where some of these are pulled from two different drop categories. Now we have it where some will change it based off of when they get "x" drops for "y" kills. Another person will refute this and put a number that may be drastically different. I cannot see this system in a working condition, and therefore I cannot support this proposal. Ryan PM 03:14, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Pending, leaning towards Oppose - I'd like to see how tLULbot does the charm drops first. If that works really well, I may support this, but right now I'm not in. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 21:52, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - The proposed system will not be implemented. C.ChiamTalk 11:57, April 9, 2010 (UTC)