Forum:Do Not Include Player Names In Images

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Forums: Yew Grove > Do Not Include Player Names In Images
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This thread was archived on 3 January 2019 by Cqm.

The issue of using or not to use images with players' names shown has been brought up recently, and there has been differing opinion on this matter. Some has been of the view that players' names should be stripped out of the image by any means whatsoever, and others are of the notion that players' names can be included in images used in articles. This issue would no doubt come up again in the future, and spark similar confusion, due to differing intepretations of RS:PDDA. As such, I would like to propose that we clarify this policy once and for all, as well as set a standard to follow.

Therefore I offer the following proposals:

1. Disallow player(s) names in images, in strict compliance with RS:PDDA.
1a. Disallow player(s) names in images, with the exception of if it is not feasible to remove the player names.
2. Disallow player(s) names in images, with the exception of when having the player name would be relevant.
2a. Disallow player(s) names in images, with the exception of when having the player name would be relevant, as well as if it is not feasible to remove the player names.
3. Allow player(s) names in images.
4. Status quo - Leave it up to the user to intepret the policy themselves, and decide whether to remove the player(s) names.

Discussion

Support 1 1a - I feel that we should just not allow player names at all, for consistency, as player names are also typically not allowed in articles unless mentioned by Jagex in citable sources. Fishing cape.png Kate the HuntressQuest.png 02:11, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

After reading some of the comments and responses, I think I will change my vote to 1a. I do agree with Shoyrukon and Superiosity in that the 'extensive' photo-editing may be required, but as said by Cuxrie, we could indeed just tag the image as per what he said, in the event that it proves to not be feasible for the uploader to remove it themselves. Fishing cape.png Kate the HuntressQuest.png 05:38, 12 December 2018 (UTC).

Comment - Pretty sure RS:IMG#Chatbox/player_names provides significant coverage regarding the player names in images. Shoyrukon (talk) 02:16, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Comment - Don't we already use player spoof names in these types of images? -- Recent uploads SpineTalkGuest book 02:18, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Not all, as of yet. File:Runelink.png is an example. An admin also mentioned that it was not a strict rule to be followed, and an editor was originally going to proceed with uploading another interface image with the player name still there, before another admin intervened. (This discussion occured in the wiki-rs channel of the Discord server on 12 December 2018, however, and as such, cannot be easily referenced.) Fishing cape.png Kate the HuntressQuest.png 02:25, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
This is the most recent example to date: https://runescape.wiki/images/e/e5/Loan_interface.png?08633 Fishing cape.png Kate the HuntressQuest.png 02:27, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
Comment - I think it's unrealistic to enforce that all images be uploaded with player names striped out or replaced by spoof names. It requires 'extensive' photo editing to be done. Nit picking such a tiny aspect of the image creates more gate-keeping and just creates an artificial barrier for new editors. I think the negatives outweighs the supposed benefits this proposal suggests. I say leave it as it is. If someone wishes to improve the images with player spoofed names by all means go ahead. But this shouldn't be a cause for removal as new images aren't being uploaded so the editor can show off his in-game name.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shoyrukon (talk) on 02:33, 12 December 2018 (UTC).

Support 4 - I don't think this matters very much. NeutralinoTalk?This is a pale wisp. 02:36, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Support 1 - In simple compliance with PDDA. -dDbvitC.pngScuzzy Betahib8CAd.png 02:52, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Support 1 4 - Per PDDA however to address the issue of requiring "'extensive' photo editing" for this to be achieved I suggest that instead player names being disallowed they should be not preferred. In practice: someone may upload a photo that contains a real playername but its should be labelled (with a template perhaps) that the name should be replaced with a player spoof or a generic "player". Superiosity the WikianQuick chat button.png : Yo whats up 03:07, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Actually, in retrospect I think 4 better represents what I'm suggesting. Shouldn't be a strict rule just a suggestion. Superiosity the WikianQuick chat button.png : Yo whats up 03:44, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Option 5 - Define Gaz Lloyd and Gaz L to be spoof names. Then we don't need to do any editing to get photos of interfaces that have player names in them. --LiquidTalk 03:27, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Comment - Would actually listing this as an actual option be controversial? Fishing cape.png Kate the HuntressQuest.png 05:38, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

4 - This is not something that needs to be enforced. We do not revert/delete images for containing player names, they take a decent amount of effort and skill over just adding a layer of transparency, and player names are certainly not unfamiliar to a reader. HaidroH rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).png 1XqyDNM.png Crystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 03:35, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Comment - This discussion is not to ask about whether or not images should be deleted or reverted for that, although it may be due to my fault for not wording the opening statement properly. However, we could indeed instead just tag the images for cleanup, as per Cuxrie's suggestion, like how animations or images taken with outfit customisations are tagged for retaking, or how images needing transparency/translucency are tagged accordingly, instead of just being reverted or deleted. Fishing cape.png Kate the HuntressQuest.png 05:38, 12 December 2018 (UTC)


Support 1a-ish - It does seem to be the rule that we have now, but you are right in that it's not strictly followed. Like adding transparency to an image, removing a username is not something every editor can do. We don't need to strictly enforce it though like disallowing editors from uploading. Like Superiosity suggests, if it's not feasible for the uploader to remove the name, I'd say to tag the image with {{Cleanup image}}, akin to tagging images that need transparency/translucency. - Cuxrie (talk) 03:49, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Support 1 - I figure it this way. Someone uploads an image with name that we did not have before. Now the wiki is more complete and that is a good thing. Now someone else comes along and see's that there is a player name there in the image and tags it with {{Cleanup image}}. Someone else with more editing prowess comes along see's that and goes in and edits out the player name. This way one of our skilled editors does not have too (they can if they want ofc). But also this allows some of our more novice editors to actively contribute to the wiki in a meaningful way allowing for more involvement from the more beginner editors (like me). And letting them become involved is the first step to helping them improve and become more prolific like the rest of you folks. That's my two cents worth jericowrahl (talk) 15:37, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Support 2a - First off, I agree that images with player names edited out are better when the editing is done well. If someone wants to remove player names from images, they should be free to do so, because that does improve the images.
Second, removing player names is somewhat difficult work over what is at the end of the day a fairly minor issue. It's not worth making it a barrier for people who want to upload images. Especially ones like File:Launch seed pod.gif.
Third, I'm really not a fan of complete bans on player names even when relevant (i.e. options 1 and 1a), for the simple reason that it'd mean we're stricter on images (which are hard to edit) than on text (which is trivial to edit). Also because we'd be putting player spoof names on images like File:Dimension of the Damned Statue interface.png, and that feels more than a little bit silly.
Fourth, the way I interpret it, PDDA just says that players aren't content and shouldn't be treated like content, meaning they shouldn't be the subject of articles, images, or usually even sentences. But in these cases the named player isn't the subject of the image, or even particularly important to it. It's an issue of image quality and it might be an RS:OWN issue in some cases, but I don't quite agree that it's a PDDA one. -Hourglass (2011 Hallowe'en event) detail.png I Am Me Talk III The Spark.png- 01:58, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Support 4? - Honestly, I am not sure if 4 is the option that I mean here because there has been other discussion points. Regardless of the number, my stance is this: we should prefer no player name (use generic "Player" or similar), but not outright disallow use of images with player names. As I have said in other image related discussions, almost any image is better than no image (in a case where an image should be used) so if an editor cannot feasibly remove a player name, they should feel free to upload with that name displayed. However, if another editor is able to retake the image without names or replace names with "Player" (or "Player 1"/"Player 2" etc if multiple) then they should replace the original with this preferred version. Images with player names to be retaken/edited should be tagged as such (possibly with a new template? along the same lines as how {{trans}} is used.
Second point, I don't think we should ever prefer images where the name is redacted (such as covered with a black box) because that makes editing out a name by another editor much more difficult and is often visually jarring. If it is decided that names shall never be displayed, I would be in support of simply applying a blur/pixelation filter over any names in the image.
TL;DR Prefer generic names, allow player names but tag them for replacement. Second choice: disallow player names, only allow generic replacements or blurred/pixelated names.  RS AdvLogMyles Prower  Talk 18:51, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Support 1a - Coming from an image editors perspective there are some times I can manage to remove a name without destroying the content. Other-times, nope. Also, in terms of spoof names and the such. We would have to make sure that the text font was readily available. Jagex uses an interesting system when it comes to the font, but I'm sure someone, somewhere has it. RuneMetrics icon.png Tyler JarretTalkLight animica.png 23:29, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Support 4 - nonissue. taking the time and effort to edit simple images just for the sake of such a minor thing (player name) would be such a hassle Star Talk ayy lmao ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 00:02, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Support 4 - Making someone trans an image to get rid of a name is an awful lot of work for a reader to not misunderstand something based on a player name. Hazelmere's signet ring.pngRobbotRSOrlando Smith's hat.png 00:55, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Comment - I'd say allow images with player names but mark them with {{Cleanup image|remove player name}}, or something along those lines. It's not practical to have people obligated to go through the troubles of photoshopping things out all the time, if what i'm suggesting makes any sense at all. Meeeeerds msg 03:06, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

It does make sense, yes. Fishing cape.png Kate the HuntressQuest.png 08:04, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Comment - Tag images for cleanup that contain player names, but don't disallow players from uploading images with their names in them. TBH it's not hard to replace player names in an image. Maybe a little time consuming, but anyone with image knowledge can do it relatively quickly, in most cases, and thus can "fix" the ones needing it. Expecting everyone to have photo editing software is unrealistic, but we don't want to venture into the land of Tarikochi again. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 03:47, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Closed - There is not consensus to modify the existing policy to disallow player names in images. As before, if someone wants to dedicate their time to replacing them with player spoofs or other generic names they may do so, using {{Cleanup image}} as necessary. cqm talk 17:40, 3 January 2019 (UTC)