Forum:Disable Visual Editor?

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This thread was archived on 15 February 2016 by Iiii I I I.

Can we please disable the Visual Editor? It messes up the wiki code... a lot. I believe the only ones who use it are new editors and IP's who don't know better. This is an assumption though, because there could be people who actually like it. I've seen several wiki's that wanted it disabled which requires requesting Wikia to turn it off. So if successfull, I'd suggest to contact them to disable it. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 04:13, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Discussion

Support! Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 04:13, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Oppose-ish - While I'd like to, visual editor allows new users to edit the wiki without the 'complicated' format of source code. If we remove such an easy option for them, they'll find source code harder to use and wouldn't bother trying to edit in case they'd muck something up. We want more edits, not people to be scared. HaidroH rune.pngEagle feather 3.pngCandle (blood red).png 1XqyDNM.png Crystal triskelion fragment 3.pngHazelmere's signet ring.png 05:19, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

A few years ago when I discovered wikipedia, I just read it and whenever I saw typos and such I edited those in the source editor, there was nothing scary about that and there was no Visual Editor back then. I do however see that VE might seem easier, but if someone wants to edit something like for instance a typo, they'd edit it anyway regardless of editor. And if they mess something up, someone else will fix it anyway plus they'd learn from their mistake and become a better editor because of that. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 08:08, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Oppose? I guess? - On the one hand, you're right. It messes up the code a lot. On the other hand, the source code can look pretty daunting if you're totally new to editing. Unless we had some sort of very well done guide to editing pages using the source that was readily visible for users, I have trouble seeing a way to disable Visual Editor while continuing to gain edits. Amascut symbol.png Amascut Ia Morte 06:35, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

See comment above and the Community Wikia already has [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Classic_editor a guide]. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 08:08, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Oppose - Basically the argument here is going to be that VisualEditor is easier to use for new people, and the counter is going to be that it does mess up code and require alot of manually going through sorting it. I'm of both of these opinions. I really don't think there's any good solution here though, but if I had to choose one I'd say keep it as it is. The majority of people new to editing wikis like this one find it much easier to use the VE and see exactly what they're doing, and that can be seen by the number of people using it. The best thing is to advise people trying to do edits that will be best for the source editor to use that (such as those editing tables, templates, etc) on their talk page. jayden

I've been doing that. And aren't those numbers of edits like that because VE is the default editor? If it wasn't then the normal editor would've had more edits from the new editors/IP's. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 17:45, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
+1 more. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 21:04, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Oppose This is against Wikia's ToU. MolMan 14:22, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Oh really? [http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_we_disable_visual_editor_please%3F Tardis wikia disabled it] (number 1 result for googling "Disable Visual Editor wikia"). That was in 2012 though, and you're right, wikia probably changed it's ToU by now, but there are more wikia's who (tried) to disable it. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 17:45, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
We received block threats for changing "Wikia" to "Wiki". We won't be given leeway here. MolMan 17:52, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
What? Really? Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 18:04, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Comment - Do you have any examples of it messing up code? And is this about VE, as in ?veaction=edit, or RTE, accessed through ?action=edit (which most of us probably disabled years ago)? cqm 15:04, 14 Feb 2016 (UTC) (UTC)

Things like the persistent [[en:page name|page name]] link formatting that visual editor creates. Example. I spoke to wikia staff about this ages ago, keep forgetting to duck into Office Hours and bring it up again. (Or I'm working during Office Hours... have they changed at all?) Small recharge gem.png AnselaJonla Slayer-icon.png 17:38, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
It's as in ?veaction=edit. I can't think of any examples right now, but it's usually just little annoying stuff like, what Ansela said with the links, adding <span>blablabla</span> everywhere, random space additions in headers like == Header == instead of the proper ==Header==, removing needed or adding unneeded newlines, and the list goes on and on. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 17:45, February 14, 2016 (UTC)

Comment - It is not against Wikia's ToU to request a feature be removed from the site. If we were to try and do it ourselves, then it could violate this section: Ckoacul.png However, as we are not doing that and we would be asking Wikia ourselves (if this proposal passed), then I see no violation or legal issues. It is worth noting though that various other Wikia sites have received a response along the lines of this when formally contacting Wikia about disabling the VisualEditor functionality: twKM1Zo.png However, if there was enough support for it being removed here, I don't see why we wouldn't be given leeway, especially considering the RuneScape Wiki is one of the bigger sources of traffic and revenue for Wikia. jayden

^This :) Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 21:04, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
They literally don't care how popular we are. There are dozens of other things we'd rather have than disabled VE, but we don't have them. MolMan 00:01, February 15, 2016 (UTC)

Oppose - Firstly, I seriously doubt legitimately disabling VE is against ToU. It should be possible, as it's a single variable to change. Whether they'll do it is another matter. From a quick conversation with staff, apparently we're the first to request disabling it, assuming this goes through. That in itself is enough to make me question whether this is the right course of action for these "little annoying things".

Secondly, excluding the interwiki bug, which takes all of 10 seconds to fix, no one has identified an actual issue here. That the VE does not follow the style guide on whitespace is not a reason to disable anything.Even I space headers incorrectly according to it - they're just guidelines. When those particular guidelines were originally discussed, it was acknowledged that not everyone would be expected to follow them, but that a preference was indicated if anyone was concerned about it.

Finally, the 'help' page linked to above, [[Help:Classic editor]], is about RTE, the editor we have an abusefilter for when it breaks. It's not something we should be encouraging anyone to use. It's also the source of complaint for most of the discussions found if you google "disable visual editor wikia", and with good reason. If we disable VE we're back to that, which is far worse than where we are now. Disabling the RTE as well is possible, but then we're down the the source editor which is not as simple to use as we all seem to think, otherwise everyone would be editing. VE reduces the barrier to editing and gives us new editors to help the wiki which I'm sure we all appreciate. cqm 23:55, 14 Feb 2016 (UTC) (UTC)

It does a lot of annoying things. I haven't seen any terrible breaking things recently though. We need an RTE cleanup bot, again (again). MolMan 00:01, February 15, 2016 (UTC)
I already thought that page looked odd. I didn't know RTE was being refered to as Classic editor in this instance. I acknowlegde that VE makes it easier for new editors to edit, but I don't see why the source editor would prevent someone from editing, if someone wants to edit something, e.g. a typo, they'd edit it anyway. But hey, atleast I tried. Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 02:08, February 15, 2016 (UTC)
As a point of interest, are we submitting these small issues as bugs?
If we did have a bot to do cleanup again, it's unlikely to be able to catch the more subtle bugs as it would require someone to have extensive knowledge of all templates and their usage. It wouldn't be able to know which should be on a new line and which shouldn't, or which should be split across multiple lines, e.g. infoboxes, without someone going through thousands of pages to identify all the edge cases.
You don't have a problem editing because you know how to, same as me and every other person contributing to this discussion. We don't remember how it felt to learn wikitext, nor do we acknowledge that some people take longer than us to get to grips with it. We also forget that some people aren't prolific contributors - how would someone be expected to know wikitext if they edit once a month, or even less often that that? It might look like a lot of edits are made by VE, but it's a large range of people using it as well.
I also heard that Wikia were looking at upgrading VE again. It was about a month ago I heard it, and I'm not sure how far it got or if it's still happening, but these bugs might be fixed from that. cqm 09:55, 15 Feb 2016 (UTC) (UTC)

Oppose - Noobs will be noobs, but we like getting new noobs to noob around with us. svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 03:50, February 15, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, the editor makes mistakes. But so do new people in general! And it is much more user-friendly for them, so we should keep it! Ajraddatz (Talk) 03:53, February 15, 2016 (UTC)

Close plox - I agree VE is good for new noobs, let's keep it, and I'll silently fix all the bugs and (try) to convert editors to the source editor ;). Farming-icon.png Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) Prifddinas lodestone icon.png 11:47, February 15, 2016 (UTC)

Closed - Unsuccessful. Disabling Visual Editor and forcing the use of source mode could put off new users from editing, and bugs are a minor issue. "Noobs will be noobs, but we like getting new noobs to noob around with us" –Ty 2k16 --Iiii I I I 18:22, February 15, 2016 (UTC)