Forum:Degenret01 wiki sysop tools
- See previous discussion at Forum:Regarding a Clan Chat administrator
In the discussion above, it was proposed that User:Degenret01 have his CC admin rank removed, which ended when he requested that his CC rank be removed voluntarily. This thread is to focus discussion on his wiki sysop tools which deserves a full and independent discussion. --LiquidTalk 03:28, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
Soft Oppose/Comment - Personally, I don't feel strongly one way or the other on this matter. However, I would say that I don't think all wiki admins necessarily need to be CC admins (which could potentially be another discussion at a later time). Based only on the fact that Degenret01 is no longer ranked in the CC, I wouldn't remove his sysop tools as this could potentially set bad precedent if someone with additional ranks (e.g. wiki admin, etc) at some point in the future has their CC rank removed (voluntarily or otherwise). That said, I am happy with Liquid's decision to split this into another discussion, as I think that does set the appropriate precedent. Now, if Degenret01 wishes to voluntarily give up the sysop tools as well, that would be his choice to do so. If not, my "soft oppose" stance is based only the information that CC rank has been removed, and not on the previous discussion; I personally was not a part of the previous discussion, nor was I in the chat at the time events which lead up to the removal of the CC rank took place. Therefore, I don't personally wish to weigh in on that (now closed) matter or bring that forward into this discussion (although others who were party to those events probably should).04:39, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
Soft Oppose/Comment - As per Myles, and as per the current situation, not all wiki admins are CC admins, and not all CC admins are wiki admins. Most people on the wiki wouldn't normally have been in contact with Degen, and as such, if he proves to be able to carry out his responsibilities without similar drama as has occured in-game, why should he not retain his site abilities?
Oppose - Firstly, I was disappointed to see the first thread closed ahead of time. Removal of rights did not really resolve the discussion (despite it being the crux of the proposal) and moving it here unnecessarily fractures it. The closure was also vague and did not resolve many of the issues that needed to be dealt with as we can see from the later amendment by another user. By requesting the removal of rights, Degen evidently thinks his behaviour was not befitting a CC admin at which point it becomes not befitting a non-admin as well.
To go back to the topic in hand, I have mused over the situation here a few times over the past few days and find myself drawing comparisons with similar discussions, namely Forum:Request to Lower a Rank and Forum:Problems with AnselaJonla. For those that do not remember them, the first thread was for a bureaucrat who was making questionable kicks and starting innappropriate discussions to have their rank reduced to limit the damage they could create. The second revolves around an admin's conduct in Special:Chat (before Discord was a thing) which also spilled over into editing. In both cases, I feel we did not go far enough and with the benefit of hindsight think we should have taken more decisive action at the time. In this case, I don't really have any concerns over the use of his ignore list given his explanation but do think his behaviour violated RS:UTP. However, I don't expect any user to be perfect all the time so I feel that giving Degen the benefit of the doubt after his apology is reasonable given his many years of activity on the wiki and generally good record. As such, I oppose the removal of Degen's wiki rights for now but would fully support them being removed along with a block if it transpires that his behaviour has not markedly improved. cqm talk 23:16, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
- I am not sure if this has been discussed already in Discord, but since I can't access Discord (yay Chinese internet) I may as well explain my reasoning here for the closure of the first thread. I strongly believe that any discussion regarding a user's sysop tools should happen in a thread explicitly and unambiguously pertaining to that subject. The original thread title can seem like it is only relevant to the clan chat, and as such users who are not in the clan or not interested in clan chat affairs may not open it. Furthermore, the original proposal explicitly said that it was only intended to deal with the clan chat tools, and would not involve wiki sysop tools, adding the possibility of further confusion for people who just quickly look over the proposal to see if it is of interest to them. I think that any discussion regarding desysopping needs to be clearly stated, as I hope I have done in this thread. I acknowledge that this is fracturing the discussion but would contend that this is the lesser of two evils. --LiquidTalk 00:39, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Oppose -01:35, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Support - per my comment in the other thread. If someone is not up to scratch as a clan admin, they certainly aren't as a site admin.20:35, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Oppose - We have admins who aren't even in the clan. Admin rights and CC rights don't necessarily mix and match. Heck, even on the RfA template there's a spot to ask if they even want IRC/Discord/CC rights. Coelacanth0794 Talk 20:38, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Oppose - per most of the above points. Being an admin in the clan chat and the wiki proper are different roles. The CC is a mostly social environment and we've established that Degen's conduct was inappropriate for such a place but I don't think this constitutes removal of admin tools. So long as he maintains an appropriate "working relationship", so to speak, with others on the wiki I see no reason to desysop him. 03:24, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
- Comment - That's a good point.
Oppose - Per Coel03:46, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
Oppose - The actions in-game, to which have been resolved in the previous thread, weren't ideal from all involved parties. The provided tools that Degen has on-site have no bearing on what took place in-game and there has not been misuse of any tools from him at any point. The ignore list in-game is perfectly fine to use, even if it is on clanmates because there is no rule that forbids this in RS:CC. I see no issue with Degen retaining his tools as he has been a good member of the community for a long time. Surely it would take more than the two pictured instances to remove any rights and if such a thing occurred again, I would want the full context from multiple parties. Therefore, I oppose any removal of tools or further consequences from the reported activity in-game. - Ryan PM 01:06, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Oppose - I feel like if he hasn't abused his admin tools and has not shown any inclination towards such actions then I have no reason to distrust his use of said tools jericowrahl (talk) 16:55, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
Closed - Degenret's sysop tools will not be removed. While there's agreement that his behaviour in the CC was not inline with current policies, his response to the previous thread seems to have resolved the underlying issues. cqm talk 17:30, 3 January 2019 (UTC)