Forum:Counter-vandalism IRC channel

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This thread was archived on 17 April 2010 by Aburnett.

Hello everyone, Ajraddatz here again.

I was considering starting a counter-vandalism IRC channel for the RuneScape Wiki. This channel filters out possible vandalism is #cvn-wikia channel, and streams it into a channel. The channel itself would be in a moderated mode, meaning that only users with the voice flag (+V) can talk. This eliminates the need for OPs, except of course to hand out the V flag.

Taking a few lines out of #cvn-wikia to give everyone a sense of what it does:

[18:56] <+WikiaRC> IP [[wikia:User:186.97.41.230]] edited [[wikia:GuardiAngemon]] (+67) Diff: http://es.digimon.wikia.com/index.php?diff=15445&oldid=7447 ""
[18:56] <+WikiaRC> User [[wikia:User:Trickiert]] uploaded [[wikia:File:59.jpg]] URL: http://wikia.com/wiki/File%3a59.jpg "uploaded "[[File:59.jpg]]""
[18:56] <+WikiaRC> IP [[wikia:User:24.22.141.150]] edited [[wikia:Rus]] (-14) Diff: http://xmm.wikia.com/index.php?diff=6719&oldid=5166 "/* Major People */ "
[18:56] <+WikiaRC> User [[wikia:User:Sanddh]] uploaded [[wikia:File:Chainmail Armor Verdalim Icon.png]] URL: http://wikia.com/wiki/File%3aChainmail_Armor_Verdalim_Icon.png "uploaded "[[File:Chainmail Armor Verdalim Icon.png]]""
[18:56] <+WikiaRC> User [[wikia:User:Eliane2]] used edit summary "Deshecha la edición" [[wikia:Idzi Dutkiewicz]] (-72) Diff: http://es.doblaje.wikia.com/index.php?diff=31608&oldid=31570 "Deshecha la edición 31570 de [[Special:Contributions/Allspark Power 001|Allspark Power 001]] ([[User talk:Allspark Power 001|disc.]])"
[18:56] <+WikiaRC> User [[wikia:User:Gen.Cain]] used edit summary "Undo revision" [[wikia:Care Package]] (-53) Diff: http://callofduty.wikia.com/index.php?diff=265292&oldid=265278 "Undo revision 265278 by [[Special:Contributions/74.57.69.180|74.57.69.180]] ([[User talk:74.57.69.180|talk]])"
[18:56] <+WikiaRC> User [[wikia:User:Sanddh]] uploaded [[wikia:File:Chainmail Armor Verdalim Live.jpg]] URL: http://wikia.com/wiki/File%3aChainmail_Armor_Verdalim_Live.jpg "uploaded "[[File:Chainmail Armor Verdalim Live.jpg]]""

I do not need consensus to create the channel, however, I would like this to be publicly advertised on the wiki, like the IRC channel. This is a tool which makes the fighting of vandalism a lot easier. Also, this is on a "I want to go on it" only base; there is no commitment or anything like that.

I personally don't see any reason to oppose this, but if you do then please voice your opinion. One last thing: by founding it, I will become an operator in the channel. I am not starting this to "get more power", so if anyone objects to this then just make a comment below, and that can be changed. Either way, once the channel is approved and established, OPs will be voted on. Thanks for commenting! Ajraddatz Talk 01:00, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Comment - I can be contacted on the IRC as either Ajraddatz or Ajraddatzz (cloak @wikia/countervandalism.user.Ajraddatz), if anyone wishes to discuss it in the environment, or view a counter vandalism channel. Ajraddatz Talk 02:01, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Support - This seems like an efficient way to to swift through the RC for possible vandalism. The summarys of what may have occured also seem very helpful. --Dragon helm.png Team6and7 Talk Dragon boots.png 02:21, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose Its just something that is really not needed, our sysops patrol the RC quite well, and in a special needs case people report it in the Wiki CC. A lot of us just never touch the IRC so it would sit there doing nothing. But create away if it makes you happy, just don't expect it to do anything or get participation.--Degenret01 04:04, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

This makes little sense to me. Because this is completely optional, helps to sort out possible vandalism a lot better than comparing diffs, and is completely optional, why are you opposing? Ajraddatz Talk 04:23, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
Not many people go into the IRC anymore, so it would be very ineffective for reporting vandalism. As he said, we patrol the RC, CVU, and listen on the wiki CC, so it's currently an effective system without it, so why bother adding it? Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 04:25, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
Because he's doing it for free, on his own time, and is interested in it? Honestly, considering those things, why would you oppose? It's another tool in the belt! I say go for it! Heck, if for nobody else, for me. I'm on IRC for other reasons, and a lot more than I'm on the wiki. Maybe I'd do something useful if you added it. Endasil (Talk) @  07:25, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
Comment After testing out #cvn-wikia, I love it! It's more real time than anything you would ever have in a browser. So if you can keep it with that level of real-time, not only would I use it, but I would say it's probably a more effective tool for immediately catching vandalism than RCs, CVU or anything else I can think of. Drop by my talk if you have any technical changes with the filtering (can't imagine it would be hard though) Endasil (Talk) @  07:32, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
Comment - I would also like to say this; it looks like you are opposing just because I bring this up. Also, there really isn't any reason to oppose this; if you don't like it, don't use it. Don't ruin it for everyone else. Ajraddatz Talk 17:03, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
I'm not opposing just because it's your idea, give me some damn credit on not being a total jerk. I have no intention of attacking you at every turn, nor do I even care what you propose. I throw my opinion in based on if I personally think the idea is practical and useful to me. It has already been shown the IRC is barely used by many of the wikians in lieu of places like vent and the Clan Chat. I doubt many people would use it since there is almost always a ranked individual on the wiki/in the CC at all times, so vandalism isn't really a problem. Quit trying to play me as the guy who votes no to proposals just because a certain user posts them, since I find that very offensive and uncalled for. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 02:21, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
Er, I made that comment to Degenret, who (for very good reasons) has taken a disliking to me. Sorry for the confusion. Ajraddatz Talk 02:30, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral - It might seem like I have some sort of grudge against you, but really, I don't. I agree with Degen - it's redundant. Sysops already patrol the RC, the CVU and even the CC... The IRC is very underused, but doesn't that make it pointless to add a CVU channel to it, when there's hardly anyone on it anyways? But then, it wouldn't hurt anyone. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 08:43, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral - On the one hand, this is somewhat redundant. On the other hand, I've noticed a lot of references to "the CC." I understand that this is a wiki about Runescape, yet channeling tasks through a Runescape construct like a CC seems to be unfair to eager editors like Ajraddatz who want to help out this wiki but don't play RS. Do we want this wiki to shun users because the don't play RS (I hesitate to bring this up, but it seems like KvKwikia's response to our user's help, which we were all disgusted by.)? Dark avorian 13:34, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Of course we shouldn't shun users that don't play RS, but really, the CC is just one way of reporting vandalism. One could also just use the CVU, use an admin's talk page or even just wait for someone else to notice it. But then again, this IRC channel wouldn't hurt. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 14:43, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Support - So we know one person here who will use it. Who knows, perhaps others may find it useful. Just having this tool available, even if the IRC is rarely frequented, can only help us.  Tien  14:57, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I think it'd be great. A lot of the opposers/neutral-people use the excuse "The IRC is rarely used". If we implement this, if anything, it'll make the IRC more popular, which is what we need. No one is forcing you to use the tool, and even if only one person finds use in this, it is still being useful to the wiki. Chicken7 >talk 04:05, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

A lot of the opposers? There's only one person opposing Wink Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 05:33, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
And even though I said Oppose, I also said go ahead and make it.--Degenret01 05:39, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
Yes check.svgFixed - Opposers/neutral-people I meant. Lol Chicken7 >talk 05:50, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per Chicken, this can't do any harm and can only help to bring more users into IRC, as well as give additional alternatives to catching vandalism. --Quarenon  Talk 16:23, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Comment to Ajraddatz - Those familiar with me should know without a doubt I do not vote support/against based on my feelings towards the proposer of a thread, that would be too disrespectful of myself and disrespectful to the wiki. I judge each thread on the merits that I can see. In this particular instance, my biggest misgiving would be that of a major vandal spree going on that somehow no sysop is noticing, and the person who does notice chooses to go to this channel to report it, instead of one of the places where a sysop will actually be to receive that report. Which I do recognize to be unlikely, yet possible.--Degenret01 03:22, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

Whoa, what are you talking about? This isn't a place for reporting vandalism. For one, only certain people will even be allowed to talk in it. This is only for finding and reverting vandalism; after that it will be reported through the usual channels. Ajraddatz Talk 03:38, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, also, I would recommend doing a bit of research into the IRC. There are topics, as well as messages that can be sent to users upon joining the channel. Both could contain clear links to the CVU page. Ajraddatz Talk 04:01, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
I am unable to log on/use the IRC.--Degenret01 04:14, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
There are still help pages for it, which could be worth reading. Also, my first reply might have sounded rude; it wasn't meant to be. Ajraddatz Talk 04:17, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

Comment Now I have learned enough to know I have no idea at all what the heck this is about, how it works, or what it will do. I hate speaking from my ass so I will bow out of the rest of this discussion.--Degenret01 02:14, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - The CVN channel is now operational, and can be accessed through here. Just type in your username and try it out :). Ajraddatz Talk 16:10, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Operators

I know nothing of how IRC works, but when you say by creating it you become an operator I have deep concerns. I think it would be much wiser to have only experienced trusted members of the community be Operators if they have more tools/powers than anyone else entering the channel. And since I say experienced, I do not mean myself.--Degenret01 05:44, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

It's his channel, he can do what he wants. But I think the community should have such a say if this becomes an official/endorsed channel (i.e. linked to from somewhere in the RuneScape namespace), in which case we might want some kind of wiki moderation. Until then, it's just an unaffiliated tool that he's allowing others to use. As has been said, such a channel in reality requires very little moderation since only the script is given a voice, (the channel should be registered with ChanServ and be set with mode +m) and nobody else can therefore talk on the channel. I'm of the opinion that those who will administrate a service should be given permissions. As a Wiki, we could do with a lot less of automatically carrying wiki privileges into unaffiliated areas (read: I can't believe I've been taking up space in some clan chat list that I've never even accessed). Endasil (Talk) @  06:25, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
If it is to be a tool of the Runescape Wiki, it won't be his per say, it will be the entire wiki's. I think that he could do a good job at being an operator (or whatever the term is, since IRC isn't my cup of tea), but I think that a ranked user, say a sysop or b'crat, should be an Operator due to the tools, unless there is some sort of vote (which seems to be forming below) says otherwise. Just my two cents. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 22:49, March 30, 2010 (UTC)


My suggestion would be that ajr remains the founder of the channel since it's his channel to administer, but the community should also nominate someone to have sub-founder access (+f on the ChanServ flag list). That can be me since apparently I'm going to be using it. Endasil (Talk) @  06:25, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Since you don't trust me, Deg, I will put my "resume" in here. I am an elected administrator on 7 active wikis with over 1,000 articles. I am also a supervisor on Wikianswers, rollback on English Wikipedia and actively involved with counter-vandalism across Wikia. I am a counter-vandalism.net user (like it says in my cloak), and am local op on the cvn-wikia-lego-wikis channel. I have operator access on something like 6 IRC channels, none of which were created by myself. Oh, maybe I should also take the time to mention that I won't be given op rights initially, the CVN staff wish to give it to an administrator. Ajraddatz Talk 17:00, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
"Oh, maybe I should also take the time to mention that I won't be given op rights initially, the CVN staff wish to give it to an administrator." What do you mean by that? Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 17:20, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
They want an admin to start out with the op flag, so we can do the whole vote thing right now :) Ajraddatz Talk 17:34, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
Alright to keep you up to date I just went ahead and got permissions on the channel and then gave Arjaddatz the same permissions so he can set the channel up. There hasn't been enough interest shown by the community to warrant some long debate about who should get what. If people have issues with that, bring them up here. It seems like most people don't really even have a perception of what the channel is, so expecting people to be knowledgeable enough to vote on this issue is ludicrous at this stage. Rather than using it for some kind of bureaucratic gratification, let's just get it set up. If/when the channel is set up, people will start to have an idea of what it does, and at the point we can reevaluate how it will be administered by the community. Endasil (Talk) @  04:13, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
I agree and support that. Chicken7 >talk 04:48, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Request for Closure - No standing opposes, other than those by Degen. I would like to implement the changes by putting a small blurb about it in the IRC page. Ajraddatz Talk 04:00, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Support closure - Ajr has done a great job in the channel so far. No reason not to. scoot4.pngscooties 04:03, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
I noticed that it's still my bot doing the actual reporting in that channel. Were you thinking this was now a permanent solution? If so, I'd like to change the scripts and maybe not use my computer for hosting the bot exclusively. Endasil (Talk) @  06:09, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
There will be a different bot in there soon, which will be able to blacklist/whitelist and possibly even adminlist, but the person why has the base code to make that bot is away right now. I can't find a base that is sufficient, so we will need to wait about a week. Feel free, and please do, whatever you feel is required. Ajraddatz Talk 13:33, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - Channel is in operation. --Aburnett(Talk) 04:35, April 17, 2010 (UTC)