Forum:Cleaning up the sidebar

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Forums: Yew Grove > Cleaning up the sidebar
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This thread was archived on 31 July 2010 by Calebchiam.

Over the past few weeks I've been paying attention to try to make our site usable for non-editors, particularly those who are unfamiliar with Wikia (and their unique style of navigation) in particular. One feature that targets these types of users are the links in the [[Mediawiki:Monaco-sidebar|sidebar]].

Unfortunately, our sidebar is just much, much too overcrowded with content to be useful for the average reader. So I want to clean it up. Now, unfortunately the sidebar has no good way of adding section separators (such as GUIDES) so our only real option is to reduce the overall stuff we shove into it. I'm proposing we use my customized sidebar found at User:Endasil/Proposed-sidebar as the site default. You can try it out by creating and saving [[Special:MyPage/Monaco-sidebar]] with the contents {{User:Endasil/Proposed-sidebar}}.

Here are the guidelines I followed:

  • Community links (IRC, Images categories, etc) should be kept to an absolute minimum. The portal provides the perfect mechanism for that. Editors know how to properly use the search box to quickly find a page, and more importantly, editors can customize the sidebar for themselves however they see fit. I know we just had a vote on the images issue but I wanted to address this issue as a whole.
  • Items in the sidebar should not be multi-level (expandable) unless all of the sub-options can be presented (as with Skills). Showing just a few Quests but not all (or same with Items, Locations, etc) just serves to confuse users as it's not clear that the root item can be clicked on to go to the proper mainspace page. By simply having a link Quests, they get a list of quests that we can optimize for site browsing.
  • Confirmed future updates were just way too specific to take up space as quick links.

I'm just suggesting my current sidebar as a starting point, let's work out exactly what we want. We can tweak it here and there. But something needs to be done, it's not currently serving its intended purpose with the current state of clutter.


Support - I support a change per my current proposal but am open to alterations here and there. Endasil (Talk) @  07:41, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I'm thinking maybe we should add a Guides section back in that expands to links about Treasure trails, money making, etc. similar to how it is now. I'm not a big fan of our Wiki's guides and how non-NPOV they are, but they are popular articles. Endasil (Talk) @  07:59, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Will we be able to keep it how it currently is?Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 08:09, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

This is a proposal to change how it appears for users who do not customize it themselves (most users). It is very easy for individual users to customize it to add things that they would particularly like. That includes customizing it to be exactly how it is now. The issue is that normal readers don't care about the 15 things listed in the community section, nor categories of images that need conversion from JPEG to PNG, etc, etc. Those are things that would be better decided by the user through customization. Endasil (Talk) @  08:23, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
Hmm Support as long as there is an easy way to make it as it is now I'm sure a lot of people would find this helpfull so ok. Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 08:56, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Weak support - I agree that the sidebar is too crowded, and like the one you proposed. We really need to make it a lot simpler. But, I see a major problem in that many links I, and probably many other users, formerly used to quickly access pages have been removed. The Yew Grove is no longer present. Neither is the D&D locations for doing your weekly Penguin hunt. The IRC will also yet again lose popularity with its removal. That is only a few. Although, I will still support. Users may customise their own personal one, and the Bookmarks widget can also be used. Although, A LOT of emphasis should be put on how to customise the siderbar, or how to add bookmarks, etc. Cheers, Chicken7 >talk 08:43, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

I sympathize with that sentiment that some areas of the Wiki may lose popularity. The thing is, the sidebar should have never been used to try to expose areas of the site that are hidden. It should be an optimized collection of links for the average reader. IRC chat doesn't fit into that, and I'm saying that even as a common user of it! Portals can provide that exposure, and we can instead link to portals. Endasil (Talk) @  08:59, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Comment Distractions and diversions are very useful links to have there, they are definitely player oriented links. On a fairly recent VFD for the locations page people were coming out of the woodwork to say how much they loved that page, and I bet most of them like the link to it. The other changes look good and clean to me, although I am curious if anyone actually uses the category:bestiary, items, or locations. Is there a way to know?--Degenret01 09:04, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, that's a really good point. I was kind of taking the cue from other fansites about having those three links but really they are pretty useless to the average reader. In fact, I just changed them to all say something along the lines of "if you are looking for a particular item, just search for it." Those three things are real estate that could be taken up by something more popular. Endasil (Talk) @  10:04, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

OK I nixed Items, Locations and Bestiary links at User:Endasil/Proposed-sidebar in favour of bringing back D&D, Activities, Achievement diaries, Miniquests and Guides. It seems to me like Items, Locations, Monsters and other database-like articles people will naturally search for since they have a very obvious name to search for. They therefore make sense to stay off the sidebar. Our guides, on the other hand, will not have obvious title names and so are more fitting to sidebar links. Let me know what you think (and be bold and make changes too, though it is what I am using for my sidebar right now so don't go crazy experimenting) Endasil (Talk) @  10:23, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

-adds link to everything containing the letter P- Lol--Degenret01 11:51, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Looks good Might be something else some one else might spot but I think its good that way.--Degenret01 11:54, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Although, make sure that you do keep many links to pages. Makes it easier for viewers to find info ^.^ Ajraddatz Talk 16:56, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Although I use monobook, this should be good. However, I don't use the [[MediaWiki:Monaco-sidebar]], but instead MediaWiki:Sidebar which also may need to be cleaned out. As well I can customize my own with items like: ModifySidebar("remove", "Community", "IRC chat(CGI)", ""); or #p-Content {display:none} in my JS and CSS files respectively. Not everyone uses Monaco, some like me use Monobook. Some may still use Quartz or Wikiaphone (iPhone, non-changeable at the moment) if they know how to override certain files (e.g. ModifySidebar is a "hack." I cannot get it to utilize {display:none} on the IRC channels.). Another solution for those that want to customize their own is to create pages like UESP's Javascript/Modify_Sidebar page or about removing established links via CSS. Ryan PM 17:30, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Monobook probably could use some cleanup, but I'd like to keep that discussion separate just because a user using Monobook is pretty much by definition an editor and not a casual reader (they've gotten to the point of making an account and specifying preferences). So while it might need cleanup, it's not within my self-imposed mandate of making the site more usable from a non-editor standpoint. Endasil (Talk) @ 18:09, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Put the forums in there somewhere, then I'll like it :D (davelopo) 21:34, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

LOL, nevermind, I simplified mine to literally all the things I ever look at or use. (davelopo) 21:45, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - I've looked at it, and it seems that the new sidebar is missing some stuff that I prefer to have. For example, it lacks convenient links to all of the Community pages (YG, RfA's, etc). Also, I never thought the old one was overcrowded. This new one seems too stripped down. --LiquidTalk 19:51, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

Don't just oppose or support. If there are things we should add back, let's talk about it. Our process of consensus is brutally "vote yea or nay" when we should be iteratively getting closer to an ideal.
As for stuff you prefer to have, I still maintain those aren't something a casual reader needs to see. If an editor wants quick links to them, add them to your customized sidebar or bookmarks widget. But we can make the community link expandable, adding back maybe the yew grove and a couple other things. We've been adding to that sidebar for personal convenience when we should be doing it for reader navigation. Adding an images category exactly showcases the wrong motivation for adding to the sidebar. If you're thinking about shortcuts to your own often-used things, you've got the wrong motivation. That can be customized regardless of the site default. Endasil (Talk) @  22:18, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
The Yew Grove, forums, IRC, CC info and RfAs can all be accessed from the Community Portal, anyway. So this could be another way of increasing traffic at the CP. Chicken7 >talk 00:37, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

New sidebar

I've made a new one for the proposal user:mythbusterma/proposed-sidebar just copy its contents into the page mentioned above --

Runecrafting MythbustermaTalk   HSCabbage.png<= BRASSICA PRIME

23:03, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

Looks good except I would put Community portal as one of the community sublinks. Feel free to make those changes to my proposed one so that we can collaborate instead of compete. I'm also not sure I like having the editor review there but would live with it. Endasil (Talk) @  23:12, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

Ok ill go ahead and make those changes to yours and ill move the community portal under the community header....i just wasnt going to modify yours because it was a user-subpage and im not supposed to....but now i will --

Runecrafting MythbustermaTalk   HSCabbage.png<= BRASSICA PRIME

17:14, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Alright it's now under User:Endasil/Proposed-sidebar , and now includes my home, forums, and the likes

edit: btw anyone with the transclusion template need not do anything, as the changes are already implemented on yours

Runecrafting MythbustermaTalk   HSCabbage.png<= BRASSICA PRIME

17:24, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Comment about Confirmed future updates - Just saying that I added that because it's probably something most users would want to know about, and wouldn't be able to find easily otherwise. White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 18:44, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I was having trouble categorizing that. I think a main page link would be better, under our main contents section. Endasil (Talk) @  19:14, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, that sounds better. White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 01:27, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Should User of the month be included into the sidebar? It seems like it would be great for community links. ~MuzTalk 19:05, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

It's not something casual readers (as in, readers who just come to the Wiki for information) care about (though neither are most of the community links) and I think it has plenty of exposure on the main page since it's a featured section. People will know where to find it. Endasil (Talk) @  19:14, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
I guess that sounds fair for the casual viewers. ~MuzTalk 20:22, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Comment Updated to include RS:UOTM and GEMW and CTI and Future updates --

Runecrafting MythbustermaTalk   HSCabbage.png<= BRASSICA PRIME

19:21, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to start restricting the Community link again as discussed. Let's be deliberate about each thing we add back and make sure it has at least a little discussion. Also, the Content menu is pretty confusing now. Nobody would think to look under "Content (A-Z)" to find those links. Endasil (Talk) @  19:29, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Remove the link to MyHome. Its available in the top-right of the window on every page, and IPs (the majority of our viewers) cannot use it anyway. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 23:33, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Third Proposal

I like how the sidebar has links to some of the more basic pages, so I cut it down to what I felt was just that (without removing the community aspect as well. We want people to get involved in it, and I see the sidebar as a way to help with this).

I wrote it all out here, though I plan to trim it down a bit more. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 16:04, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Adding {{RuneScape:Links}} under the *RuneScape:Links|Affiliates line will expand it (example). ShinyUnown T | C | E 11:27, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Anyone else have any opinions? Ajraddatz Talk 20:00, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


Request closure - Discussion has died. 222 talk 07:13, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

This request for closure was denied A user has requested closure for Cleaning up the sidebar. Request denied. The reason given was: I'll leave it open for a bit for people to make comment

ʞooɔ 09:42, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Notice of Intent - I have modified the sidebar. The final version was a compromise of all suggestions and versions above. We were getting nowhere with above's discussion, and there had to be change. I have written up a guide at RS:SIDEBAR, and made an extremely easy method to revert back to the old version. I'll leave this thread open for a few more days, and put something in the sitenotice. Feel free to make comments or further suggestions below, but we're not going back. Cheers, Chicken7 >talk 05:28, July 11, 2010 (UTC) EDIT: Added a button to show how easy it is to revert to the old version.

Revert to old sidebar

Then click save.

Comment - It's puny!!! Almost as if we have the default sidebar... Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 05:38, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Please bring back the old sidebar, it doesn't need that much cleaning. I'm sure people can navigate just fine with a slightly crowded sidebar. I own this!!!LovemuffinTalk | Contribs | #I own this!!! 06:19, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

C7 already said it's not coming back. You can customize your own sidebar if you wish though. HaloTalk 06:24, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I actually like it more this way. It shows stuff (that I still won't use) that some other people who are not very "Wikinated" might find useful. =3 svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 06:28, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - This doesn't apply to me, I've customised my own sidebar and I encourage other users to do the same. Very useful. 222 talk 06:39, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I like this one. Seems much easier to find stuff for people that just come for info. SardominSign Me! 06:44, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Can there be a button to revert to the default sidebar after customising?Smile 222 talk 06:54, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Not one as easy as that. Lol You'd need to blank your monaco-sidebar page, then use the fancy button. Chicken7 >talk 07:01, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, right. K thanks. 222 talk 07:17, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - What? No link to the forums? They already have too little traffic, removing the link isn't helping (by the way, you cannot customize the sidebar for the mobile version of the, so I'm stuck with no link to the forums, yew grove, or community portal; if the community portal would be added, that would be grand.)(davelopo) 17:42, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Special:MyPage/wikiaphone.css for the mobile skin, you can customize it, although it uses MediaWiki:Sidebar. Also, seeing as the [[MediaWiki:Monaco-sidebar]] has been updated, why not the other MediaWiki sidebar (for all other skins)? While I suspect that the vast majority of users have a variation of Monaco as their chosen skin, some use Monobook or Wikiaphone (for those with iPhones/etc.) or another skin such as Chick, Modern or Quartz. I personally use Wikiaphone and Monobook (mostly due to less clutter, previous Logo/Theme discussions) with a custom css/js for each. Although I don't know if/see why this would require a new discussion. Ryan PM 21:33, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
I'm a little confused. The forums, YG and community portal are there and have always been there. Both in Monaco-sidebar and Sidebar. >.> Chicken7 >talk 00:35, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
Odd. As soon as I edited that in, the sidebar come normally. (I just got to use a normal computer, I didn't feel like typing on the iPhone again >.>) But just to make sure they're always there, I'll edit my mobile css. (davelopo) 02:04, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I like it. For non-wikians, it'll make it easier for them to find the pages that they need. Suggestion: maybe include a link (maybe under the Guides category) to link to Dungeons, as many players spend a lot of time in them. --  Nequillim  T C E   14:05, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

Question - Can RuneScape:Off-site be added to the Community list? It is a part of the community. Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 20:56, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

Oh it is there, I was looking at MediaWiki:Sidebar. What is that for? (<- nub time) Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 08:03, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
It is the sidebar used for all skins besides Monaco as Monaco, for this moment, is Wikia's poster-child. So that is the only reason it has it's own MediaWiki. Now, just have to wait for them to release their new skin later this year (as shown in the staff blogs on the Community Wiki). Ryan PM 11:01, July 17, 2010 (UTC)


I had reverted mines because it looks complicated at first. Can we just have the old one back? I prefer the other version because it's easy for me to track out skills I need to do and click for more information. Also, I have a idea that changes everything. Some skill guides are overcrowded, possible over 32kb, within like 500 line of text, we could seperate and make links, like when a player scrolls over Woodcutting, there can be:

  • Skills
    • Dungeoneering
      • Puzzles
      • Bosses
      • Skill Guide

Like that, it will be easier than to just press Ctrl + F then type the keywords and then it finds blah blah blah.

What you think? RSREALM THE ROCKING FIRE! 00:07, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: Since some replys, I made a code format so far that I can test it, it's working for now. If you want to test, here it is.

* RuneScape_Wiki | Main Page
* Category:Content | Navigation by category
* mainpage | Top content
 #popular#| Popular articles
 #visited#| Most visited
 #newlychanged#| Newly changed
* Skills
** Free-to-play | Non-member skills
*** Attack | Attack
**** Pay-to-play Melee training | Skill Guide (P2P)
**** Free-to-play Melee training | Skill Guide(F2P)
*** Constitution | Constitution
**** Pay-to-play Melee training | Skill Guide (P2P)
**** Free-to-play Melee training | Skill Guide(F2P)
*** Cooking | Cooking
*** Crafting | Crafting
*** Defence | Defence
**** Pay-to-play Melee training | Skill Guide (P2P)
**** Free-to-play Melee training | Skill Guide(F2P)
*** Dungeoneering | Dungeoneering
*** Firemaking | Firemaking
*** Fishing | Fishing
*** Magic | Magic
**** Pay-to-play Magic training | Skill Guide (P2P)
**** Free-to-play Magic training | Skill Guide (F2P)
*** Mining | Mining
*** Prayer | Prayer
*** Ranged | Ranged
*** Runecrafting | Runecrafting
*** Smithing | Smithing
*** Strength | Strength
**** Pay-to-play Melee training | Skill Guide (P2P)
**** Free-to-play Melee training | Skill Guide(F2P)
*** Woodcutting | Woodcutting
** Pay-to-play | Member skills
*** Agility | Agility
*** Construction | Construction
*** Farming | Farming
*** Fletching | Fletching
*** Herblore | Herblore
*** Hunter | Hunter
*** Slayer | Slayer
*** Summoning | Summoning
*** Thieving | Thieving
* Quests| Quests
* Miniquests| Miniquests
* Category:Guides | Guides
** Money Making Guide | Money Making Guide
** Treasure Trails Guide | Treasure Trails Guide
** Skill Training Guides | Skill Training Guides
** Lumbridge Beginner guide | Lumbridge Beginner Guide
** Economy Guide | Economy Guide
** Alchemy Guide | Alchemy Guide
** Wilderness Survival Guide | Wilderness Survival Guide
* Activities | Activities
* Distractions_and_Diversions| Distractions and Diversions
* Achievement Diary | Achievement Diaries
** Ardougne Diary | Ardougne Diary
** Falador Diary | Falador Diary
** Fremennik Province Diary | Fremennik Province Diary
** Karamja Diary | Karamja Diary
** Lumbridge and Draynor Diary | Lumbridge and Draynor Diary
** Seers' Village Diary | Seers' Village Diary
** Varrock Diary | Varrock Diary
* Bestiary| Bestiary
* Locations| Locations
* Items| Items
* Upcoming updates | Confirmed future updates
**2010 Hallowe'en event
**2010 Christmas event
**Bone brooch
**Myreque 5 | Myreque Part 5
**Void Knights quest series | Void Knight quests
**Dragon warhammer | Dragon warhammer
**Dragon crossbow | Dragon crossbow
**Upcoming updates | More...
*Runescape:Images | Images
**#category-Needs image#|Articles needing images
**#category-JPEG images#|JPEG images
**#category-Images needing transparency#|Images needing transparency
**#category-Standard detail images#|Standard detail images
**RuneScape:Mapbuilding|Mapbuilding Project
**RuneScape:Image Maintenance|Image maintenance project
**RuneScape:Featured images|Featured images
* RuneScape:Community Portal|Community
** Forum:Yew Grove | Yew Grove
** | Forums
** RuneScape:Community Portal | Community portal
** RuneScape:Requests for adminship | Requests for adminship
** RuneScape:Editor Review | Editor Review
** RuneScape:Article_of_the_Month | Article of the Month
** RuneScape:Cleanup_Articles_of_the_Month | Cleanup Article of the Month
** RuneScape:Frequently Asked Questions | Frequently Asked Questions
** RuneScape:Clan Chat | Clan Chat
** RuneScape:Wiki worlds | Wiki worlds
** Grand Exchange Market Watch | Grand Exchange Market Watch
** RuneScape:Market | Marketplace
** RuneScape:Wiki Post | Wiki Post
** RuneScape:Policies | Policies
* RuneScape:Chat | IRC chat
** | Wiki IRC channel
** | Java IRC client
** RuneScape:Chat policies | IRC policies
** RuneScape:Chat | IRC help
** RuneScape:Chat/user cheatsheet | IRC nicknames
** RuneScape:Chat/QDB | Quotes database
** | Gaming IRC Channel
* RuneScape:Links | Other languages
**pt-br:|Português (BR)
* RuneScape:Links | Affiliates
* RuneScape:Contact us | Contact Administrators
** RuneScape:Counter Vandalism Unit | Report vandalism
** RuneScape:User help | User help
** RuneScape:Admin requests | Admin requests
** RuneScape:Requests for deletion | Deletion requests

So, I will delete out some of the Links such as vand. and all that affilitates as it will clutter up the sidebar. I will edit tomorrow.

RSREALM THE ROCKING FIRE! 22:33, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how this is complicated, as the reason it was changed was to simplify. This version still has links to all the skill pages, and also the skill training guides disambiguation. You're idea is interesting, but we don't want too many menus in the sidebar. if we add another set of menus, when it is opened fully, the sidebar would extend half way across the screen. All those links can easily be found in the Table of Contents at the top of the skill articles; you shouldn't need to use Ctrl+F. Cheers, Chicken7 >talk 00:40, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
I really don't see how the simplified layout is more complicated than the previous incarnation, but you can make your own you know? As for the previously mentioned forum link, I think Dave might have overlooked it, but alas the MediaWiki:Sidebar should be updated for others to remove senseless links/clutter inline with the Monaco discussion. It also might do some good to write up a guide on that as well on how to customize it, albeit I only know of one, but it's a JS hack to add links or remove some links (IRC, I'm looking at you) unable to in CSS with the ModifySidebar extension. Ryan PM 01:33, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
Okay, if I can just link up everything it would work? Like I have to go to my page, edit the whole section and put in my idea of them? This would look complicated for the idea. This looks like everything will be cluster up, I will need some help with this whole project, maybe publish the code of the sidebar. By the way, how did you get it to Manico Sidebar page for the user? I wanna do a tutorial like that on my custom wiki. Expect that they can make their own version. It looks confusing on making a sidebar, but I had done it a few minutes ago that it was so easy. RSREALM THE ROCKING FIRE! 23:56, July 12, 2010 (UTC) (PS: 6 minutes of typing? Holy man!)
Check the first post of this section, I couldn't fit it down here, but it's listed up there. If you want me to move it, please leave me a talk on my page. Cheers! RSREALM THE ROCKING FIRE! 22:33, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
Er, that's far too many links for any website (let alone a sidebar). Overly complicated and unneeded. Ryan PM 02:55, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
But, if it can make it easier, it will work more, and probably I prefer that version. Rsrealm 23:08, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
If you prefer that version, you can make a custom sidebar. Unfortunately, that's a very complicated sidebar and I don't think many others will like it. ʞooɔ 20:01, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
This differs the orginial one that I used to edit with, as there are many shortcuts like you can load up a page without searching it up. Rsrealm 22:27, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
I can see you've put quite a bit of work into this sidebar. It seems to be just the original, with even more links. The whole purpose of the sidebar renewal was to remove the excess of links, and only offer the core ideas and things users would need or want. More links just creates a mess of the sidebar and makes it extremely complex. Not only that, but it may start to lag some browsers. Chicken7 >talk 07:14, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
I will put in a notification that high-speed internet users (Like Verzion users on here) can only use this sidebar due to many links, which can slow down the page. Btw, the new sidebar is crap (the one we have now), so that's why I wanted to make a newer version. Better work on this tomorrow. Rsrealm 04:20, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
Don't be a dick. Some people worked hard on this. Don't just dismiss their work if you don't like it. ʞooɔ 04:33, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
Please tell us why it is crap, and we can improve it. We were taking input for months about the sidebar, and you didn't comment. We're giving you a chance now. Chicken7 >talk 04:46, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - Changes have been made. Any further modifications can be proposed in the future if necessary. C.ChiamTalk 06:26, July 31, 2010 (UTC)