Forum:Clan Chat Ranks

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Forums: Yew Grove > Clan Chat Ranks
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This thread was archived on 12 March 2009 by Bonziiznob.

As per the policy RS:AEAE, I will reserve my right to state this in regards to policy RS:IAR.

I would like to reconsider the ranking system on the Clan Chat. As the wiki gets more forum admins, I feel there rank should not be equal to that of a sysops. Sysops dedicate more of their time to the articles and the genereal wiki, where forum admins dedicate more of their time to the forum. When a user might have a question to ask a sysops in the chat or a forum admin, I think they should better be able to identify which users those may be. As a sysops is more dedicated to the wiki itself and the process to attain sysops rights are more rigorous then for forum admins, I feel they should attain a higher rank then a forum admin.

As of current ranks:

Note: Only Corporals and higher have the ability to kick. *{{general|Bureaucrats}}: '''Generals''' *{{captain|Administrators / Forum Admins}}: '''Captains''' *{{lieutenant|CC Mods}}: '''Lieutenants''' *{{corporal|CC Mods}}: '''Corporals''' And my proposal:

Note: Only Corporals and higher have the ability to kick. *{{general|Bureaucrats}}: '''Generals''' *{{captain|Administrators}}: '''Captains''' *{{lieutenant|Forum Admins}}: '''Lieutenants''' *{{sergeant|CC Mods}}: '''Sergeants''' *{{corporal|CC Mods}}: '''Corporals''' As I am presently ranked as a Lieutenant, this would mean my demotion to Sergeant and the demotions of Forum Admin's to Lieutenants.

Bonziiznob Talk

04:59, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Support - As Nom

Bonziiznob Talk

04:59, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - I'm not just saying this because I am a forum admin, but forum admins have earned admin status just like synops. But forum admins have worked sometimes just as hard, if not harder them regular admins. The only change is their area of expertise. There is a reason regular admins cannot do ... locking a thread on the forums. all tasks that forum admins can. I would like the ranks to remain as they presently are. Prayer.png Jedi Talk HS Log Tracker Summoning.png 05:14, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Uhh... You are not as special as you think. Normal admins CAN lock/move/delete threads. Also, iirc, you only got Forum Admin today or yesterday, so don't go touting around the fact that you are one. Christine 05:17, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
I am not "touting around the fact" that I am one. It is just that fact applies to this situation for me, does it not? Prayer.png Jedi Talk HS Log Tracker Summoning.png 05:34, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Neutral - I hate to sound against forum adminship as the forums need to be kept clean and civil and all that too, but the forums aren't the biggest part of the wiki: the wiki is. I don't see how posting on the forums is harder than writing a money making guide or a quest walkthrough. But I don't really see how this rank would help anyone, including you, Bonz, as all it does is demote people, which will only lead to complaining. 20px‎ Kudos 2 U Talk! Edit count! Contribs! 05:44, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

These people are still able to kick, which is pretty much all they care about anyways. So they really have no reason to complain. Christine 05:47, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
The point is both positions have a lot of responsibility and a user can't just ask for it and get it. They have to earn it and put time and effort into it. If all we care about is the ability to kick, why do we even have ranks and this proposal? The whole issue on ranks is the ability to kick, like Christine said. Prayer.png Jedi Talk HS Log Tracker Summoning.png 05:57, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Support - With all due repect to forum admins, the clan chat is the official clan chat for the RuneScape Wiki, not the RuneScape Wiki Forums. Also, the only difference between sysops and forum admins is the forum admin ability to sticky/global threads, make announcements, and create polls. Andrew talk 16:26, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Changing the ranks makes no difference to their ability to use clan control functions, the only thing that would be changed by this proposal is the mentality that certain people that are able to kick are somehow better than others. Devaluing the work the forum administrators put in is rather unfair, considering they make contributions to the wiki community as anyone else would, the only difference is that their contributions are displayed in a different manner. Simply put, elitism has no place in a community of equals. -Byte_Master bytesig2.png bytesig3.png 16:34, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

This isn't devaluing anyone's work, it's making it easier to recognize forum admins and sysops in the clan chat. I find it rather odd that you accuse anyone of elitism when Bonzii has clearly explained the reasoning for this proposal. Forum Admins would still be able to kick, but as I said before, this is the official chat for the wiki, not the forums. Andrew talk 16:37, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Actually, it's the official chat for the wiki community, which means forums included. Their positions on the wiki aren't a necessity in clan chat, as they don't exercise those powers there, and if one was trying to find a wiki or forum administrator, they'd likely look on the wiki and the forums, not cross-reference the clan chat list ranks to the ranks list on the site. -Byte_Master bytesig2.png bytesig3.png 16:43, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Strong Support But please explain how the CC Mods will get chosen. The sysops, forum admins, and bureaucrats automatically get ranked but what about the 2 other ranks? There are some ips and regular users who do more than some admins so i dont see the whole elitism thing working... if anything the system Bonzi is proposing will make it clear to see who you can ask for help regrading things on the wiki. I take advantage of seeing ranked people on the cc to report vandalism on the forums. Distinguishing between a Regular sysop and a forum admin would really help.... God Of War 17:39, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Comment Byte Master is correct. The forums are obviously part of the Wiki... I don't know where that idea came from. If someone has achieved enough trust to become a forum admin, they are trusted, for sure, and they can be trusted in the CC just as much as regular admins. Prayer.png Jedi Talk HS Log Tracker Summoning.png 17:51, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Support - This was going to be my next point on my subpage, but you beat me to it here. These ranks will help identify users, and help keep the CC safe and hopefully stop people "abusing power" or people accusing others of it. It's not a ranking system to show how superior you are compared to others, it simply follows the responsibilities of the community on the Wiki. Sysops are currently capable of doing more administrative tasks than Forum Admins. Karlis (talk) (contribs) 17:54, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Support - But one thing, how are we going to establish who is a Sergeant and a Corporal? Does this mean we are to limit how many CC Mods there are as it looks like a Seniority system after all 100 Friend slots are used up, and Admin's would have Priority over CC Mods. This is my conern that I want to bring up, also, should we limit how many CC Mods possible? Ryan PM 22:44, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Taken from the site notice: R_S_Wikia is the official RuneScape Wiki Clan Chat channel. Byte Master, I fail to see how making forum admins a bronze star is somehow elitist. I think we have bigger problems if that is the only worry. Andrew talk 23:03, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, if we want to keep all things equal, and anyone who has attained some rank is trusted, why not make us all the trusteds the same rank? "Oh no, we can't do that"....but we can. And should. --Degenret01 00:24, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I personally oppose this. I think that we should do something along the lines of what Degen said. If you're an admin/crat/forumadmin, you're not automatically ranked. If you're trusted by the community, you are. There should be a community process similar to RFAs where you get kicking rights. There are regular admins and forumadmins, why not CC admins? In this RFR (Request for Rank) process I am proposing, my idea is first you nominate yourself (or are nominated) for a lieutenant rank (stars ftw), and you can nominate yourself to get to the upper two ranks later. This would give the most trusted users a general rank, which would make them un-kickable, and therefore immune to any potential power abuse. Sorry if this came out kind of weird sounding, ideas were forming very rapidly in my head.

InstantWinstonDragon 2h sword old.pngold edits | new edits

00:46, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose-I support this "RfR" idea of Winston's. 00:53, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

See below 20:47, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Comment - that's a whole lot of trouble to go to just for a clan chat rank. It would be different if you were being nominated to receive sysop tools or forum admin tools, but just to kick? :s Andrew talk 01:04, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Ah, dang. That's probably shortest argument to change my mind, ever. Support 20:47, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Comment - This is kinda like what Soldier said, but being trusted on a clan chat is much more different than being trusted on the wiki. Sysops can delete articles, which can prove to be a major problem if a sysop decided to abuse that power. On a clan chat, the most dangerous thing you can do is a temporary kick.  Tien  20:55, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Alright, then how about we don't have such a hierarchical system, and just have all kickers be one rank? My main worry is that something like this might happen:

  • A user trolls the CC, is a friend of an admin.
  • Lower ranked kicker is targeted by the troll, is about to kick the troll, and is kicked by the admin instead. The admin kicked for personal gain.

It might not happen, but I really don't see why we need to have more than one kicking rank. Who cares if we can't tell the admins apart from the others? It doesn't matter. My proposal before still stands, too. I mean, we have forumadmins and regular admins, why not CC admins? Isn't there an idea in the works for IRC admins, or has the whole IRC drama died long ago?

InstantWinstonDragon 2h sword old.pngold edits | new edits

00:44, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't know what you are referring to. IRC ops are Wiki sysops, and wiki sysops only, and that is the way it has always been. Christine 02:08, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Neutral - I think the ranks should just be kept simple. Bureaucrat = General, Administrator / Forum Admin = Captain, and Lieutenant (AKA CC Mods) = Lieutenant. I'm not sure how we would rank the Lieutenants, though. Maybe like Rollbackers are given rights. White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 02:48, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I dunno about this. I know someone mentioned somewhere recently (may've even been on the YG) that rollback is insanely easy to get. I'm not saying some rollbackers shouldn't get it, but I don't think all should either. Christine 02:52, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, I meant we should rank them how rollbacks are ranked, by on a talk page, instead of having a long RfLiuetenantship. I agree that not all rollbacks should be made Lieutenants on the Clan Chat. White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 03:40, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
With all respect, this chat is not the place to determine how ranks should be given, it is about the position the ranks hold. I am merely suggesting that forum admins not have the same rank as sysops on the chat.

Notice of Intent - I plan on closing this within the next couple of days. As of now the results are: Support - 6, Oppose - 2, Neutral - 2.

Bonziiznob Talk

13:06, 10 March 2009 (UTC) Closed - Conclusion being the proposed will be implemented.

Bonziiznob Talk

06:46, 12 March 2009 (UTC)