Forum:Clan Chat. Pragmatic Instead Of Overzealous

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This thread was archived on 21 June 2010 by Calebchiam.

For clarification this is about my in-game character currently named Dr.Mundo PhD in game being kicked from the CC. To clear the air, I am not totally broken up by what happened or angry at all as I know Chess1242 was just trying to do the right thing and protect everyone.

This happened early this morning about 4:30am pacific time. A large number of users were in the CC and Chess1242 was the only ranked member on. We were all chatting back and forth having a good time when someone starts a conversation about the censor and how it works, what it censors etc. During that discussion two or three time I pointed out totally legitimate words that were censored that shouldn't have been as well as a few words that are censored but still have legitimate non offensive meanings. Usually I would test the censor to see if the word was filtered and if it was, repeat it with a ' in front of it so everyone else knew what the word was. Rest assured they were not blatantly offensive or racist or harsh in nature. This I assume disturbed Chess1242 and although no users were offended or asked anyone else to stop Chess very lightly warned everyone twice. At this point a spammer visits and makes a couple of rude remarks but is swiftly kicked. Immediately after I jokingly remarked "So ruuude my head will explode" and "My virgin ears are bleeding" with the second word of my second sentence being filtered. I am then kicked from the CC after repeating it by saying "'virgin ears bleeding" to uncensor it while discussing it with another user. I am kicked and I PM chess as you can see from the below screenshot.

For quick reading I have highlighted my remarks, and the remarks of the spammer as well as my chat with chess in game. There is a good chunk of conversation I cannot post because my chat expired too quickly.
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6772/clipboard02v.png

Just the facts as I see them:

  • No one was offended and if they were did not make anyone in the chat aware of it. Chess wanted us to stop simply because "It is against the rules".
  • I never directed the words at anyone or displayed any behavior that would not be permitted here on the wiki. This was simple banter between friends and editors.
  • Chess1242 cited the in-game ruleset "Respect" which can be found here [http://www.runescape.com/kbase/guid/rules_of_conduct]. However Jagex defines this as actually offending someone as you can see, and does not mention the word filter at all:
    It's simply a matter of common sense - try not to say anything that someone might find offensive.
    Since no one was offended, simply following the rules without regard to context did not benefit anyone in the CC or myself.

My suggestion is that from now on we take the same mentality Jagex does in their own rules and keep it to common sense and context. If there is a reason to follow a rule about profanity and the filter, lets make sure someone is actually offended or has asked for the discussion to stop. Jagex has made it very clear as of late that as long as no harm is done then the issue is not worth reporting. So if an issue is not worth reporting, why is that issue worth kicking? Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 12:23, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Comment - Just wanted to add that you also evaded the censor about five minutes before that conversation too. bad_fetustalk 12:28, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

I covered that, first paragraph about midway through During that discussion two or three time I pointed out totally legitimate words that were censored that shouldn't have been as well as a few words that are censored but still have legitimate non offensive meanings Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 12:35, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - If chess kicked you, he did the right thing. Regardless of weather or not you like them or when you think they should be applied, rules are rules. If we start going around bending the rules for people, the wiki will just melt into chaos.
Wow 'virgin ears bleeding

That's censor evasion if I have ever seen it.

Sounds like woman taco

We are smart enough to know what your talking about. Just don't go there.

I am not bypassing the censor

Yes you are?

Ban yossimite, he encouraged me

Only you are responsible for your own actions. Don't even try shifting the blame.

Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 12:39, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Rules are there for the benefit of those who make them, if they do not apply or will not benefit anyone why do we have a policy like common sense or ignore all rules here on the wiki? The woman taco comment was a vanilla way of saying Vagina which as you can see from the conversation Yosemite said he used vgn to symbolize. Since Vagina is censored I did not say it and simply described it. The "I am not bypassing the censor" comment was a direct response to the previous sentence where he said "stop bypassing the censor" to the women taco comment and not denial of the overall situation. And the final "ban yosemite" comment was total jest as yosemite and I had been exchanging similar talk the entire time I was in the CC which was a while before this incident. The overall atmosphere of the room is hard to distinguish just from the text in my screenshot, but no one was getting heated. I was even pmed after the kick by two users saying "He really kicked you?" because the overall tone of the entire discussion was joking. Re-highlighting my comments and one lining them like I am trying to hide something or put a spin on it is entirely pointless seeing as how I have hidden nothing and even went as far to point them out in my own screenshot. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 12:47, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
I said stop bypassing the censor to Yose when he said vgn, not you. bad_fetustalk 12:52, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
I did not know that, apparently steler could not tell as well or even yosemite as he did not respond. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 13:01, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
Comment - Based on what has come out, perhaps the kick was not a just as I originally thought. Keep in mind that chess was just ranked and is merely trying to do his job, and nobody should expect him to be perfect right of the bat. Never the less, evasion should not be a practice that is done for pleasure, or at all, if possible. Keep in mind that people who enter the clan chat unaware of what it is like should be able to expect that all the rules they may have heard about will be followed. We have to uphold our standard without losing the spirit of a policy and simply going to the letter, as Degen said. Sorry for the lateness of my reply, as I was away from home the past day and a half. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 22:47, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Comment If the kick was indeed for bypassing the censor to say virgin then it was a ridiculous kick. Anything said needs to be taken in context and our ranked people need to learn to understand discretion, and how to follow the spirit of a rule much much more than the letter of the rule. It is supposed to be safe fun clan chat, lets just be smart.--Degenret01 13:22, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I recall being there for the first time you evaded the censor, though I wasn't around when you were kicked. I'm on Chess's side, since you have been warned about censor evasion. If he kicked you straight-up, that's not a good kick. However, given the fact that you were warned, told to stop, and continued to do so is unacceptable. It is not your place to decide what is appropriate and what is not appropriate for the censor. That is Jagex's job, and Jagex's job alone. If you don't like it, then you don't have to play their game. --LiquidTalk 18:00, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

I guarantee given the circumstances Jagex would not have taken any action against my account for the above conversation. I believe its gotten to a point with language to them that they don't really care if no harm was done. Its no secret they have been laxing the censor and more often telling people not to report unless they were seriously abused or harassed in game.Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 19:43, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
And I promise you, had you been reported, you would have a 3-day mute. You DID evade the censor, and they DO mute for that. HaloTalk 20:06, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
I have personal experience with mutes and swearing in this game and I can very confidently say that I would not have been muted for this. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 20:33, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I'm with Steler on this. Man up, and take responsibility for your own actions. HaloTalk 20:08, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Man up to what? This isn't about manning up and being an adult in a situation where I acted immature and offended someone. No one was hurt, the only person who was bothered was Chess and he admitted it was strictly because of the rules and not because he felt offended. As degen said, its about what the rule is intended to do, not following it to the t in every situation no matter the variables. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 20:33, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
You were trying to blame it on yosimite during it. And now you are bringing it up and making it a big deal. You were avoiding the censor, you were kicked, Chess was right to do it, so stop being a drama queen. If you do something wrong, apologize, get it over with. Otherwise you just end up making yourself look like a moron, and not benefiting anyone. HaloTalk 20:37, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Comment Halo has a point Twig Talk 772kZGs.png 20:35, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

I would appreciate you actually reading the entire discussion before chiming in what you think is a revelation. The entire clan chat was having a good time and being sarcastic, I was not the only one. I only wish I had additional screenshots from minutes prior to the kick. As said above, me "blaming" yosemite was a total joke and as you can see from that screenshot no one took it very seriously. And really, your comment doesn't make much sense. You can plainly see I am trying to neutrally recount what happened and have not attacked anyone during the incident or during this discussion. I even went back into the CC after my kick and talked with with chess and him and I are harboring no I'll feelings nor am I condemning him or demanding the removal of his rank. I feel I have handled the situation thus far with an abundance of civility. My intention was simply to encourage that sysops not just blindly follow rules, but that we treat it like we do here on the wiki. So please, maybe you should stop being the drama queen. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 20:44, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
How am i being a drama queen? Next time Just ignore the trolls Twig Talk 772kZGs.png 20:46, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
Was not directed at you, my apologies. I mistakenly put the reply to halooah under you.Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 20:57, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
I don't see the point of this thread then. Could you enlighten me? Otherwise I am forced to believe you are just trying to make a big deal out of it (being a drama queen.) HaloTalk 20:48, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
Because this is not the first time I have seen sysops kick people for no other reason than they have broken a rule despite no real harm being done. Like I said, I am not condemning anyone, just suggesting that sysops be a little more contextually aware of the overall mood and use common sense per our own wiki policies. Let me also point out that coming into a thread and calling someone a drama queen twice is a very simple way to incite a heated discussion. I mean you are criticizing me for saying virgin directed at no one yet you are actually insulting me directly and feel justified telling me to man up to the rules about civility. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 20:54, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
All users must abide by the Rules of RuneScape with civility, respect and fairness, without questions or exceptions Twig Talk 772kZGs.png 20:58, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
I'm not insulting you, and if you took it that way, I apologize. Chess isn't even a sysop, and he SHOULD have kicked you for avoiding the censor. We uphold Jagex's rules (especially in the clan chat), and if you break them, you should be kicked. HaloTalk 21:06, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
You guys just proved my point. You cited a rule created on the wiki for the clan chat that was reached by discussion here on the yew grove and can be subject to further change again on the yew grove. I am talking about not blindly upholding rules just because they are rules that benefit no one and you cite more rules like that will prove the point. Also, RS:IAR, and RuneScape:Consensus#Not_permanent. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 21:15, April 3 2010 (UTC)
Could you explain to me what you are trying to change then? HaloTalk 21:18, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
The attitude that violating the rules in text should not warrant a kick or ban. That whoever has the power in the channel at the time should use common sense and a survey of the atmosphere of the CC. If someone becomes offended or requests the subject of the discussion be changed then that would warrant a warning and if that person or group persists then they should be removed for actually causing a disruption. In my particular situation, the only disturbance was caused by the actual kick. If we had let things continue on as they were without Chess's intervention, no one would have become offended and the room would not become heated in the slightest and the subject would have eventually changed itself and everyone would have been happy. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 21:30, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

I probably would have kicked you in this circumstance, or at the very least given you a final warning. Simply stated, the clan chat page clearly states that you have to follow all of Jagex's rule when in-game, and evading the censor is completely against the rules. Maybe you can do so in a non-offensive way, and you have here, but once you start doing that, you're breaching both Jagex's rules and the wiki's rules, so you pretty much abdicate any right you have to complain. Now then, you say that the acting moderators shouldn't just blindly enforce the letter of the law, but that's not what Chess did. As you stated earlier you were doing it before and he did warn you. There was no need to evade the censor that time, and if you really wanted to, you should have done it via pm. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar.png 21:41, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

We choose not to follow some rules like recommending the wikia to people in game despite it not being an approved fansite because of discussion. Yet we are required to follow a Jagex rule that deals with non offensive censor bypassing based on what? Our adherence to Jagex in game rules is nothing more than a wiki policy that many people disagree with. As far as Jagex is concerned they could not have taken action simply because the filter was bypassed because no one reported me because no one was offended. Ignore all rules and not permanent apply. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 22:03, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
It may be offensive to some people. Ignore all rules applies to making the wiki better. Avoiding the censor to say 'virgin' does not make the wiki any better, therefore it does not apply. No one reported you because we are a community, and we try to be nice to each other. AND-Just because you disagree with a policy does NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES MEAN YOU CAN JUST THROW IT OUT THE WINDOW. You seem to only be using policies when they benefit you, and ignoring them the rest of the time. Frankly, it disgusts me! HaloTalk 22:22, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
So it is offensive to some people even if no one says anything or asks for the discussion to stop? Not only does that make zero sense but why is that the status quo? Only someone who was in the CC could have come to the conclusion that anyone was offended and you were not there. Chess1242, the person who kicked me even admitted no one was offended and kicked me because of the rule, you can see that from my screenshot near the bottom. If you have a problem with my behavior or feel I have violated any of our policies then please bring it to the communities attention or to my talk page so we can view the evidence. Otherwise keep your unfounded below the belt punches out of the discussion. And really, what purpose does capitalizing anything do here? I am not offended and all you do by doing it is make the discussion look heated and chase off any other potential commenter's who want to remain drama free and neutral, so please stop it. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 22:50, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
It adds emphasis. What disturbs me most is you keep quoting policies, but only when they back you up. Yet you say that we don't have to abide by Jagex's rules, because that's only a policy. You are twisting policies to try to prove your point, and ignoring them when they don't aid you. HaloTalk 22:54, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
It adds emphasis in a way that it makes people think you are angry. As you can see Man tag added a heated tag. My point about the CC rules is that why can the rule list pick and choose exceptions like when it comes to recommending the wiki in game which is not allowed, but no longer applies when I believe an unfair kick has been distributed in a case when there was no harm? According to your logic, anyone who speaks the wikis name in our CC should be kicked simply because Jagex has a rule about advertising and we are bound by their rules and also not on the approved fan site list. Why can that be an exception but we cannot allow our admins to use common sense when it comes to moderation of our own chat? 23:04, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
Chess DID use common sense (hence he kicked you.) It's not advertising to name a clan chat, I've asked that to Jagex myself. We aren't making the exceptions, you are. You are ignoring me however. I have stated several times that you are only using policies when they are convenient for you. Answer that. HaloTalk 23:41, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
Which policy am I ignoring? The clan chat rules are not a policy, they are clan chat rules. How is a blind enforcing of the rules common sense? Its the exact opposite. You have yet to make any other argument than "Its against the rules because its against the rules". So please answer me this. If the purpose of all of our CC rules is to create a friendly fun environment for editors and players to group together and what I said was not causing any offense or disturbances, then why was a kick necessary? Like I said earlier had the kick or warnings not been handed out, no one would have made an issue of the situation. The only reason this post exists is because I was kicked and Chess said if I disagreed with the kick I should post it in the YG. No other users who were in the CC at the time came forward and let anyone know they were offended. In fact, as I said before I was pmed by several users who were surprised I was actually kicked. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 00:08, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
I've lost track of this inside my head now. I still think Chess was right to kick you. It's against the CC rules to avoid the censor. That's it. We aren't getting anywhere here, so if it's okay with you, I'm going to stop arguing now. HaloTalk 00:59, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
Well like I said, if the text of a rule and not its intended purpose were the only motivation for the kick then I feel the kick was wrongly justified as no harm came of what I or anyone else in the channel was saying. By the way, its against Jagex rules to avoid the censor and even they don't mention explicitly avoiding the censor in itself is a punishable offense. They make it quite clear that harassing or offending someone on purpose is what makes avoiding the censor an offense. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 01:25, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Not to prolong another circular discussion, but I have just read through RuneScape:Clan_Chat, Inappropriate_language_or_behaviour, and Respect. I saw no mention of censor evasion per se. Can anyone link that please?--Degenret01 02:22, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Straight from the horses mouth:
http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/7878/modmarkcensor.png
Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 05:51, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I would like to say that censor evasion is not actually a breach of Jagex rules per se. Jagex says that something censored is unreportable, that doesn't mean anything uncensored is unreportable. If i am having a genuine discussion with someone that is about, say, how i got hacked by a fake website earlier this year, it isn't against the rules to say "pass word" (evade censor) in that context. I should note that the rules about the censor fall under Respect, and Account security. If I'm not being offensive then I shouldn't be banned, kicked, etc. Dark avorian 11:46, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Lets move ahead with a new community understanding

That evading the censor per se is not a violation of any rules, and is not a kickable nor even a warnable offense, as it is not an offense at all. The picture above makes that perfectly clear. We can say that anything in the past is the past, and this is how it should be from now on. Can we agree?--Degenret01 11:57, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

I agree, but I still think we should try to avoid evading the censor for the most part. HaloTalk 12:01, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

I still do not think that we should let censor evasion, as the average user age using the cc is about 15. bad_fetustalk 13:10, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

This only applies to non-offensive content If its offensive, yes, kick/warn. But in the case first cited up the page saying virgin in a nonoffensive way would not be a problem.--Degenret01 13:20, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

What if someone said vagina or penis or something like that in a non-offensive way? It doesn't make sense to me not to kick them. bad_fetustalk 13:21, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
If you cant distinguish between offensive and nonoffensive, you should not be ranked.--Degenret01 13:40, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
I don't mean that in a negative way. Anyone who feels that they are not up to judgment calls should just say, rank is not for me. It will not reflect poorly on you to do so.--Degenret01 13:49, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - But guys...its against the rules....lololololol Just kidding, support. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 20:49, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - This is why I wish Don't Be A Dick was real. Honestly, if it's not nessacery to the topic at hand, such as if someone randomly said "'hitler killed 10 millions jews!" randomly, that's just pointless and stupid. If it was used in a non-offensive/non-stupid way, like answering who the leader of the Nazi party was in the WWII era, then I see no problem with it. My view is just oppose stupidity. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 22:03, April 4, 2010

Comment - I agree with Degen on this one. Also if we were to follow the runescape rules to the letter we would be kicking alot of people as technically mentioning the wiki is against the rules. Slayer Timwac talk Fire cape.png 17:05, April 5, 2010 (UTC) (UTC)

Comment - Though I completely agree with Stelercus that people should take responsibility for their own actions, the Clan Chat had been very troll-y lately. We had one called "Jediadan4" who was using some very offensive censor evasion, directed at various people (including myself), and then running out of the cc before anyone could kick him. BEfore Chaos Monk managed to kick this troll, he had made fun of at least 4 people. I think that the clan chat needs more security, if possible.--Cheers, Off-hand ascension crossbow.pngYodaAscension crossbow.png 18:57, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

It's hard to do that...unless you want to kick out all unranked...which will NEVER fly. People will always try that stunt (of making accounts of ranked people, except changing 1 letter/number, and then spamming.) Thanks to Jagex it is somewhat hard to kick them now. That's life...we just have to deal with it. HaloTalk 21:05, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - ">_< my sister forgot her pass.Word" <- would you kick somebody for that? I doubt it. If you would, you need to find some common sense. I think that as long as the word is used in a non-offensive manner, I have no problem with evading the censor. I don't see a fuss when somebody tries to say "okay, gl" and has to retype it differently because the censor changes it to "okay* **". (hint: discussion about penises and vaginas is almost always offensive in some way, so don't try to argue over that example). I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 20:41, April 6, 2010 (UTC) 

Comment - Oppose - You did avoid the censor with "'virgin," so Chess was correct in warning you. Joking and continuing to avoid the censor proved that you did not take the warning seriously. Arguing that your actions "[make] total sense" and repeating what you were warned about seems kickable.

I think there is a misunderstanding of "offense." It is uncivil to discuss "women taco" and virginity in a chat room. It isn't as though you were taken out of context. Someone does not have to express offense for something to be offensive. There is also a misunderstanding of "overzealous." Chess was not overzealous in kicking you because he warned you, and so I'm back to the point that you didn't take his warning seriously.

So, I support Chess in his pragmatic decision to kick you and in his position that we should not condone censor evasion in the clan chat. If anybody feels comfortable testing the system to see if a concept or conversation is kickable, they should do so with the understanding that the chat may accept their decision or reject it, thereby kicking them.

This isn't a discussion about blindly following all rules, as it is obvious that we allow the suggestion of the runescape wiki despite it not being a fansite. We would not be banning people for suggesting the wiki. Leftiness 22:14, April 6, 2010 (UTC)


Leftie, it has been clearly established that avoiding the censor per se is not a violation of any rule either in Runescape or here on the wiki. Yes, it has been quoted as a rule for a long time, I even thought it was one although I ignored it. Since it is not a rule and never was, we are simply now trying make all ranked users aware of that fact. There is nothing for you to oppose unless you oppose all ranked people knowing the rules, which is a silly thing to oppose. No one is pointing fingers at Chess calling him a bad person. It was a misunderstanding, and now we all know better, myself included. Time to move forward.--Degenret01 06:36, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
As said above the "makes total sense" bit was in response to yosemite who asked "Why would you use that word" because the censor blocked virgin but displayed ears. So he was confused about the phrase I used as it did not make much sense and I was answering him, I was not defying the mod by saying I was making sense and he was not.

I disagree about your application of what is overzealous and what is not. You clearly saw the the picture of the Jagex mod saying context is what is important, not just the fact that the censor was avoided (Censor evasion is also never mentioned in the rules). So by ignoring context, and that no one was offended, he was being overzealous in his warnings and the kick. Now about the offensive thing, usually the chat room has no shortage of do gooders who immediately try to quell the lightest of chat that seems to go past what is normally deemed acceptable and we always respect them. To say that we should always keep conversation g rated because someone might eventually become offended and not say anything is ridiculous. If you are offended, leave or politely ask for the conversation to end/change. If no one does that and even after the incident says "To be kind of honest I was offended" then we can safely assume that the chat was not offensive to anyone.

Also, simply declaring talk about human anatomy or any other non offensive issue uncivil in all forms is a very narrow minded way to ignore every other culture and society but your own and is not what we should strive for in the clan chat seeing as how we have people from all walks of life constantly present.

In conclusion. 1. If no one is offended then there is no problem. 2. Context is important. 3. Be open minded. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 23:08, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose: Though RuneScape:Chat is a bit outdated in the way that it seems to only apply to the IRC, I essentially interpret the rules to have juristiction over the clan chat aswell. Avoiding Jagex rules in the clan chat and expecting everyone to just go along with it, is unacceptable. It is not reasonable to expect that users of the CC will not be unoffended by blatant and extreme censor evading. JaGex has rules in their game for a reason, and frankly being in wiki clan chat does not give people a good reason to ignore them. --Whiplash 14:29, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Per Whip. I don't think the censor evasion should be allowed unless it's absolutely necessary to. bad_fetustalk 14:31, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - NOTHING, imo, should be punishable AT ALL unless it harms somebody. thats on the wiki, in the cc, or anywhere in the world. this, CLEARLY didnt harm anybody, so while i am not surprised by the kick nor am i angry at the kicker, i think kicks like this should be avoided in the future. Third age robe top.png 3rd age farcaster Third age druidic robe top.png 14:55, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

It would be easier to avoid the kicks if people didn't purposely avoid the censor in the first place. If there's a chance it might be offensive to anyone (remember that 13 year olds-or even younger play runescape-and they are some of the most influenced people ever), then it's better just to let it go. Sometimes you have to be the bigger man by not saying something. HaloTalk 15:00, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

To opposers I have asked before, lets try again. You say we should follow Jagex rules, I say great, SHOW me the rule being broken by censor evasion alone. This is separate from avoiding the sensor to swear or be offensive. If someone is being offensive, okay thats against the rules. Swearing, same thing. But some very innocent words are censored, and kicking for using a non offensive word in a non-offensive way is power abuse.--Degenret01 15:02, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

I agree that censor evasion per se is not against the rules. But I believe we should be very careful, because many things that are censored may be offensive to some people. HaloTalk 15:06, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
and you consider virgin to be offensive? if so my chirch is offensive, a certain records company is offensive, as is an air travel company. Third age robe top.png 3rd age farcaster Third age druidic robe top.png 15:09, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
I never said I did, but some people may. When in doubt, it's best to avoid it. You weren't proving a point, so I think it could have been avoided. I just think unless it's ABSOLUTELY necessary, you should try to avoid evading the censor. HaloTalk 15:38, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
Degen, I'm saying that people should be warned as long as its absolutely unnecessary for them to bypass the censor. For example, Tebuddy didn't need to bypass the censor. He bypassed it because he wanted to. Oh, btw, I never mentioned following Jagex's rules in that post. bad_fetustalk 15:48, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

imo, kicking shouldnt be done unless its ABSOLUTELY nessary. ppl who are just messing around like TE were shouldnt be kicked, ppl intetionally causing harm should be. however, if messing around like that starts to happen often, i can see how it would be a problem. Third age robe top.png 3rd age farcaster Third age druidic robe top.png 16:13, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I don't agree with the idea that we should at all times never use words that children would or could find offensive nor is that how the real world works. I have already said that I would have gladly changed the subject or left the chat on my own had someone said "Thats kind of offensive, please stop". Regardless of that, since we like to be in Jagex shadow when it comes to rules, and no rules were violated, whats the issue? Currently words like Ass, jerk, noob, loser, and idiot are uncensored and are usually used in more hurtful ways than to use synonyms for vagina or say virgin yet I commonly see those thrown around in the clan chat without anyone turning sour. Cap and goggles.pngTEbuddy 21:31, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - It of course depends on context, but some words there is just no appropriate usage for, such as when people evade the censor to use the F-word, or generally when people are making neo-nazi statements about Hitler. Such things are unacceptable by Jagex's terms and will be considered unacceptable by us aswell. --Whiplash 21:44, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

{{Rfc|complete=true}}bad_fetustalk 15:33, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

Requesting comment? What can happen here? this is over, should be closed now.--Degenret01 04:05, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - Discussion is over. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 18:20, May 22, 2010 (UTC)