Forum:Changes to usage of Quest details template

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This thread was archived on 3 October 2010 by Aburnett.

I'd like to propose two changes to how we use the Quest details template.

Using span classes to change color of text

I think we should use span tags for the normal text and links, since both of the colors may be unintentional changed by skins. For example:

This is a [[Something|link]].

turns into

<span style="color:black">This is a</span> [[Something|<span style="color:blue">link</span>]]<span style="color:black">.</span>

Now I know your first response would be that it takes up too much space, but it is important that templates should be displayed correctly on all skins. The skin I'm using makes the links a different color than blue, which does not make it look good.

Showing all quest requirements (see example)

I'm not sure how I should word it, but this would show requirements for one quest, and the requirements for that one, and so on. I think this would be useful for user to quickly do all the quests they want to. Example (Nomad's Requiem):

turns into

As you can see, the 1 quest that Nomad's Requiem requires is really 10 quests.


Please express your opinions for the two proposed changes separately. ShinyUnown T | C | E 22:17, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Support - I was thinking of suggesting something like this myself. Great idea! This will make questing easier. ~ Fire Surge icon.png Sentry Telos Talk  22:20, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose reqs I don't believe it should be used, because the required list will keep getting longer and longer as Jagex releases new quests. Some reqs would be too long already, like While Guthix Sleeps. WOAZSBucket detail.pngrwojy 22:31, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

Support use of spans - If its causing skin-compatibility issues then it should be fixed.

Comment on requirements - I agree with Rwojy that displaying it straight up would take up a lot of room. Buuut, we could display the actual quest requirements from the game guide on the page, and show the extended requirements is a collapsed table, like so:

The stats provided below the quests are the highest minimum for the prerequisite quests (e.g. Shilo Village requires 4 Smithing, but One Small Favour requires 30 Smithing, so 30 displayed), and isn't already superseded by the actual quest (e.g. King's Ransom requires 45 Magic, but Nomad's Requiem requires 75 Magic, so magic isn't listed in the extended). Thoughts? Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 23:50, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how putting the skill reqs for the quests would help, but I see how the collapsed object does. ShinyUnown T | C | E 00:14, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
My thinking was if someone wants to get all the requirements for a quest before starting the series, having the skills not already mentioned would be useful. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 17:38, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - For the first proposal, I think we would be better off defining some generic CSS classes for informational boxes like these, so that themes can individually define their own colors for both plain text and links that are different from the standard article color scheme. Even though overriding the link color fixes the readability, moving away from inline styles to predefined CSS classes lets the themes pick the color combinations which look good and integrate with the rest of the color scheme.

For the second, I like what Gaz proposed, with the exception of moving the skill requirements into the collapsible box Lol --Quarenon  Talk 05:05, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

I think those skill reqs that are in the collapsible box are requirements for those quests in the collapsible box, if that makes sense. ^_^ Cheers, Chicken7 >talk 05:12, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
Woops, missed that part of the proposal! I like it as long as it's made clear those skill requirements are for the prerequisite quests. --Quarenon  Talk 05:20, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, they're like indirect requirements for Nomad's Requiem - you don't need crafting or herblore anywhere in NR (ignoring making your own armour/potions etc), but the prerequisite quests do, so you do need them to do NR. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 17:38, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose Per Rwojy FredeTalk 17:40, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral 1, Support 2 - I think having the extended requirements could be helpful, but it should be collapsible as Gaz said. As far as 1 goes, I don't really mind. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 20:32, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Support second one - I've been doing some work on a guide to quest rewards, and I've actually gone through the pages for the required quests to figure out where all those chains of requirements end up. I gave up pretty quickly. It was annoying, and I wouldn't want anyone else to have to do it. (Well, except to add the information the first time, I guess.) troacctid 16:31, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Support extended requirements - I really like the idea. Collapsing them would be good, since the list could potentially be very long for a few quests.  Tien  01:25, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Support Extended Requirements - Looks great and really helpfull! Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 05:08, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I am neutral on this. But I only problem with collapsible tables is that they do not work for the unregistered users. Anon IPs would probably see the whole list of requirement. It would be an inconvenience to these users to scroll through ALL of the quest requirements before they get to the walkthrough section. Please do not forget that most of our visitors are anons who are more interested in the walkthrough than the requirements.   az talk   11:05, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, anons DO see collapsed tables collapsed. Did you log off to test? Oh yeah, Support. Hello71 15:41, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
That be true. It is only see "[show]", not the hidden information. 210.56.72.250 03:01, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
Hmm... I suppose so. But what about users without JavaScript? I just feel it would look ugly if JS is turned off...   az talk   11:00, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
Is there any way we could display an inactive [hide] button that, when pressed/hovered over, a message appears saying Please enable JavaScript to use this function (or something)? Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 21:13, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
I think the only way to accomplish that would be to modify every collapsible table to have a "fake" hide link using something like <span title="Please enable JavaScript">[hide]</span>. An alternative would be to collapse the table by default using CSS, which stays collapsed even without JavaScript. See this:

In the code style="display: none;" is used to keep the extended requirements hidden instead of relying on the JavaScript-based collapsed class. --Quarenon  Talk 21:55, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Comment and potential Oppose - I think that the expanded requirements are a good idea, but for some quests it could get really messy. For example, the sequel for While Guthix Sleeps would have quite a big list of extended requirements. Also, some quests (such as Dragon Slayer, Tears of Guthix, and While Guthix Sleeps) require a certain number of quest points to start. Since those cannot be pinned to any particular quest(s), they could be difficult, if not impossible, to incorporate. --Liquidhelium 22:46, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Erm, no, it would just show the quest points that you need. ShinyUnown T | C | E 00:21, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

support. this would set us apart from other fan sites in yet another way. its a brillant idea. Third age robe top.png 3rd age farcaster Third age druidic robe top.png 00:23, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

Support Extended Requirement - When I subscribed the first time, I was wondering how much quest I needed to do for Throne of Miscellenia. Extended requirement is really helpful.

{{Rfc|complete=true}} C.ChiamTalk 08:11, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Support Save people quite a bit of time, I think it will prove to be very useful. I have a question though, I want to do Quest X which has a requirement of 30 herblore, Quest Y (which is a requirement of Quest X) has a herblore requirement of level 35. Which herblore level will be shown?   Swizz Talk   Events!   17:44, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

35. Though I'm sure there are no quests like that anyway. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 18:30, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

Notice of Intent - This thread is getting rather old now, so unless any more opposition appears it will be closed with the consensus to add the extended requirements, but not the colour related changes. Consensus is still lacking in the section below, mainly because it was just proposed, so I ask people comment down there as well. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 15:05, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Per my (very old) comment above. --LiquidTalk 16:43, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose 1 - Or rather support Quarenon's suggestion of using a generic css class instead. That way the entire details box could be customizable per skin. We shouldn't be hardcoding it. As for 2, I'm off to experiment. Endasil (Talk) @  18:05, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose both - Use default skin-problem solved. I used other skins for a while and while I didn't like them much, I still found them possible to use. As for part 2, it would get way too long. If they want to see what reqs they need for the quest that they need for the quest they want to do, it's just 1 click away. While Guthix Sleeps is bad enough as is. Basically per Rwojy. HaloTalk 14:12, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Quest Specific Requirements

Perhaps this would work better for extended requirements:

Quest-specific skill requirements would be outside the extended ones. Comments? ShinyUnown T | C | E 14:29, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Super-de-duper-uber-support!!!! - Sometimes i've spent hours finding all the requirements i need for something!!! this makes everything easier...and dont complain it makes the page longer, its in a collapsed table

Runecrafting MythbustermaTalk   HSCabbage.png<= BRASSICA PRIME

19:30, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Handy... Ajraddatz Talk 20:02, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Extended List: Strong Support + Idea - Absolutely useful, I don't know how many times I've had to look through 20 pages to find out what I need to complete. I have another idea about it, but I'm not sure how easy or feasible it is. What if we could have the data be dynamically loaded from the other quest pages, so that if Jagex modifies a quest and the reqs change, we don't have to go through every page and edit it (think what would happen if Jungle Potion changed reqs, or Rune Mysteries)? It's not a very likely possibility, but better safe than sorry (plus I'm obsessed with dynamic data and modularity). This would be a little hard to implement, though, as it requires that each quest page have a subpage storing its requirements, which throws the current template's method entirely out the window. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 05:26, May 31, 2010 (UTC) 

Spans: Support Quarenon's Idea - My custom skin overrides the background colour of that box. I tried adding the code you mentioned and previewing it, and I could barely read it. Unless you want to force the background colour too (something which I would not like much, as it would also clash with my skin) then I don't agree. Instead, what we should be doing is using classes as stated by Quarenon. Then again, my skin file is already huge thanks to the gigantic number of classes that Wikia uses. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 05:40, May 31, 2010 (UTC) 

Question - Can i go ahead and do this now?--

Runecrafting MythbustermaTalk   HSCabbage.png<= BRASSICA PRIME

00:33, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Using transclusion might help? Farming cape (t).png Lil cloud 9 Talk 16:18, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Support Quarenon's idea It is a good thing but could be a bit spammy.Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 06:39, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Question - Would the "extended requirements" be for all the quests or a separate drop-down menu for each quest? If it is a separate drop down menu for each, then strong oppose because it would look cluttered and ugly. For example look at the number of quest requirements on WGS. LordDarkPhantom 17:59, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Request for closure - Discussion has halted. Unless anyone has any further points to add. HaloTalk 16:29, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - This section, the show feature, does not work in the Wikiaphone skin. Ryan PM 16:50, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I would recommend that each quest's requirements be collapsed by default, and multiple layers of expand-collapses would be necessary. Since the [hide] and [show] links don't work for that very well, I'd recommend another script to do it. At the very least, we should have the data included but hidden, and allow users to expand it as they wish. Perhaps we could even use a customisable script so that users could change their display preferences. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 03:11, July 7, 2010 (UTC) 

Strong Support Extended Requirements - This would definitely be helpful, agree on making it collapsible. Inferno adze.png Ryndinovaia Woodcutting 21:40, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Support collapsible - Time saving, etc. Per above. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 06:11, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

Extended requirements implementation

It seems that there is a large amount of interest for the extended requirements. Here I have outlined two ways of implementing this idea.

Option 1: Do it by hand

This option will be obviously longer than the other, and has no obvious advantages. Basically we go through every possible quest that has a requirement to complete another quest, and code this by hand. It seems unfavorable to me.


Option 2: Make changes to how we do the requirements field

This option involves making new templates: Quest requirement quest, Quest requirement skill, and Quest requirement other. Basically, these three templates will standardize how we write quest requirements. They will also identify what everything is to a script that would be site-wide. The script would detect the, shall I say, quest quest requirements of a certain quest, and would detect all of the requirements on the required quest, etc. etc. When it gets all of the extended requirements, a link would appear at the top of the quest requirements field that would say "Show extended requirements". When you click this, the extended requirements are put into the quest requirements field. The link would then say "Hide extended requirements", this doesn't really need explanation.

ShinyUnown T | C | E 22:37, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion (implementation)

Note that the (implementation) in the title of this section was necessary to avoid a bug. ShinyUnown T | C | E 22:40, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

{{Rfc|complete=true}}

ShinyUnown T | C | E 15:22, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

RS:BB

I'm bored, I'm going to start doing this by hand. For a list of unfinished pages see User:Ryndinovaia/ToDoList. Inferno adze.png Ryndinovaia Woodcutting 08:27, August 6, 2010 (UTC) ...Oh wait, this is where I realize I should make a template for extended reqs, which I don't know how to do. Ignore above, but I'll probably try to do some research and do it anyhow. Inferno adze.png Ryndinovaia Woodcutting 08:29, August 6, 2010 (UTC)


No, we're deciding whether or not to do it by hand. You can't do it yet just because you want to. ShinyUnown T | C | E 12:52, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

I've looked at a few quest requirement sections; the format isn't standardised enough to have a bot do anything with it. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 04:12, August 7, 2010 (UTC) 

Technical Textwall Alert - May I suggest something?

  1. Template:Skillreq is modified to set a variable called ReqSKILL to the maximum requirement so far on the given page. This could be accomplished with
    {{#var:Req{{{1}}}|{{max|{{#var:Req{{{1}}}}}|{{{2}}}}}}}
    being placed at the beginning of the template. It also would indent based on the value of {{{indent}}}, which could be done with
    {{#sub:**********|0|{{{indent}}}}}
    at the beginning of the line.
  2. Template:Questreq is created. It displays absolutely nothing more than a link to the quest name, as quest requirements are shown now, except when the variable called ExtendedReqs is set to 1. In that case, it displays the quest name, as well as the following code: {{{{{1}}}/Reqs|indent=1}}. This will make sense later.
  3. Template:Otherreq is created. It is used to display all other requirements. It only displays these requirements when ExtendedReqs is not set to 1.
  4. Template:Quest details is modified to set ExtendedReqs to 1 after displaying the requirements, but before displaying ther extended requirements. This means that the extended requirements are only displayed the second time, in the collapsed Extended Requirements section.
  5. We move all requirements for a quest into a subpage, for example, While_Guthix_Sleeps/Reqs. These subpages are what Template:Questreq will transclude when ExtendedReqs is set.

I'm not sure whether or not this was decided, but it may be the case that we want the skill requirements to show only at the end of the list. As an extreme example, take a look at the extended requirements for While Guthix Sleeps with the skill requirements at the end, and all skill requirements for each quest shown (extended requirements for those examples done by hand). I think that the list at the end is probably the way to go, which is why I proposed the variable ReqSKILL above. In order to implement the list at the end, the following additional changes would need to be made.

  1. Template:Skillreq is modified to only display when ExtendedReqs is not set to 1, like Template:Otherreq.
  2. Template:Quest details displays the total required levels at the end of the Extended Requirements section using the ReqSKILL variables.

The main advantage to this is that it would not be painfully difficult to do, and would make the entire process work automatically. It would also provide a standard format, which would make it easier for future bots to use the data, should the need arise. The only flaw that I can see is that we would need to somehow work in a system for skill levels that can be boosted. This could perhaps be handled by a third parameter, and a second set of variables called ReqBoostSKILL.

I realise this may seem rather technical, but I am confident that it is doable and would work well once implemented. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 04:12, August 7, 2010 (UTC) 

As an added note, another possible advantage to a standardised format is a user script that highlights requirements based on if the user has achieved them (though I know of no such script currently in existence, I have often thought of writing one). I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 04:16, August 7, 2010 (UTC) 
Perhaps it would just be easier with the idea of a script for extended reqs, and there would be an option whether to have extended skill reqs inline with the quest ones or not. ShinyUnown T | C | E 15:15, August 7, 2010 (UTC)



I have an idea that has been floating in my head for a while concerning this, I have tried to submit it twice to this thread but I either got lazy or accidentally close the window :P. So, my idea is that every first-level quests are hidden. And that others inside of it are shown (with the option to hide them). Here's an example with the quest Desert Treasure:
Quest point cape.pngTalk Newbie856 edit count Nomad guideMusic icon.png 03:49, August 8, 2010 (UTC)


Desert Treasure
  • 10 Slayer-icon.png In order to wear the facemask
  • 50 Firemaking-icon.png
  • 50 Magic-icon.png
  • 53 Thieving-icon.png (cannot be boosted)


The major problem that I couldn't fix is that we cannot set any tables collapsed by default in the big table, probably because the big table's class overrides the smaller ones.
Also, the quest names don't align properly since they're all in an individual table, although someone better than me at coding could probably do this easily, I just made this quickly.
Anyway, someone could probably greatly improve this draft version I made and make it easier to use in TLUL's technical templates which I don't understand :P.
Side note: if any of you look at the source code, you'll see that I have spammed the indentation (the colons (this → : ) ). Don't worry if there are so much! simply remove 4 of those indentations (everywhere) for an actual code idea. I have added them to fit with that fact that I am indented in the talk page.
Quest point cape.pngTalk Newbie856 edit count Nomad guideMusic icon.png 03:49, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Keep in mind, Quest details will probably be modified to this soon, or something similar at least. The classes have been changed, as well as many other things, which may influence your progress. I recommend testing using the new template. Chicken7 >talk 09:38, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

Explain how we can test it if we haven't decided to do it by script or hand yet. ShinyUnown T | C | E 15:10, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
I don't know what you're talking about. Test all that coding above when added to the new quest details template, as you guys have been testing on the old one. If you haven't been, then what in God's name are you talking about. O_o Chicken7 >talk 08:26, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
We haven't determined the method we're using. ShinyUnown T | C | E 22:30, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
Why do you think it'll probably be changed to that? Almost everyone opposed that template, I really don't think it'll be used. bad_fetustalk 08:40, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
The colour was opposed, so I'm in the process of removing that. But the classes, new fields and new features will be kept. Chicken7 >talk 09:08, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, okay. Btw, sorry if I sounded rude. bad_fetustalk 09:11, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Well, which method will we be using <_<? A script/bot? Or will we be completing this by hand? This does not seem like a tough decision to me. Wink I vote for using a bot; if we have access to a working script, might as well use it. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 04:06, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Well nobody has tried to reach consensus. So we don't know. ShinyUnown T | C | E 12:52, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Request closure - I think we have consensus to implement the proposal. All we need to do now is work out which method to use for implementation. The discussion is continuing here, so this thread has reached the end of its useful life. 222 talk 03:31, September 5, 2010 (UTC)


This request for closure is complete A user has requested closure for Changes to usage of Quest details template. Request complete. The reason given was: complete

svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 01:27, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - Discussion continues at Forum:Extended requirements on quest articles. --Aburnett(Talk) 15:52, October 3, 2010 (UTC)