Forum:Change to: Money making guide standards
Hi, I just wanted to bring attention to the guides on most of the Money making guides, many of them are very messy, and one of the biggest problems is that many of the guide are using regular wikitable format, which is separated into different columns. However, these columns are quite limiting to the text, as you know, English texts are horizontally, but these columns often don't provide much space to the side, forcing the article to extend very long with many blank spaces, it is tiresome to read, as you change lines every few words. I've been working on a template that I think may or may not work, I've gotten a few feedbacks asking around on Wikia chat, most are good, providing a few hints to improvement. I think that it is good enough to bring up. The template right now is under User:Cire04/mmgtable, and putting it into articles would have it look something like User:Cire04/Sandbox, which is examples for Money making guide/Magic (F2P), and for Money making guide/Combat (P2P). So, the reason for the forum was to ask, if you would think we should change the mmgs to this format, or remain as the current one. It wouldn't impact the regular editors, as I would quite willingly change all of them, or with any volunteers. Thanks for your attention-- 23:14, February 9, 2012 (UTC)
Support - Being creator of this forum I obviously support it, for reasons listed above, however, talking to User:Cook Me Plox, gave another idea that we could do, pros about it is that it would be very detailed, very good to look at, but it would add on about another few hundred new pages, plus, I wouldn't be able to mak them all myself, need a group to do it. I am creating a template of it at the bottom the my sandbox, please disregard it for now. 02:10, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
Comment - I think that if we're going to revamp money making guides, we should do it all the way. Organizing them by skill, in retrospect, seems strange and unnecessary. My preference would be to have subpages for each of the methods, and to go into great detail for each of them. For the main Money making guide page, we could have a table/index of all of different methods (maybe segregated by members/free-to-play) and how much money they made, based on dynamic Grand Exchange prices. We could have 50-100 methods that made at least 500,000 coins an hour (arbitrary number), and update it constantly. I just don't think that the current money making ideas we have are anywhere near up to the quality we expect, especially since many of them haven't been touched for years. It would be a pretty enormous project, but once we got it done we would have a very high-quality group of guides that wouldn't need much maintenance.
Support Cook's method - The money making guides definitely need a closer look. I don't consider something that makes 50,000 coins an hour to be effective for any level player (especially with so many ways for players to make money these days without any skills). The people who read the money making guides are looking for the fastest ways to make lots of money. They don't want something that makes 50-100,000 coins per hour. They're looking for 200,000+, generally. As well, the tables are most certainly too compacted. I like cook's template for that. However, I am not so sure about not categorizing per skill. Admittedly, I'm sure there's loads of players who want to know the best ways to make money period, with any skill, and feel there should be at least an article to reflect that, but at the same time, there's likely loads of players who want to make money with a certain skill (for example, someone really wants to train their smithing, but wants to profit at the same time). Prices really should all be dynamically created using the grand exchange watch (we have a lot of inconsistency there).
Free to play and pay to play should be segregated, I guess, but admittedly, that creates a lot of duplicate content and more work. I really wonder if it may just be better to use one article and apply some type of formatting to different the members methods from the free to play. The segregation of free to play and pay to play in different articles, I would say, is one of the reasons why the moneymaking guides get out of hand.
To sum up my position, I like Cook's template, think we should keep pages sorted by skill, but think we'd benefit from a central money making page showing the top methods as cook suggested. Hofmic Talk 06:26, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
Comment- to cook's idea. We'll have to figure out how to organize the mmg in that format. I dislike the way the organized it on the page you provided. And also, only having minimal pages with more detail wouldn't work as well, because many people -such as myself- don't like to do an activity simply to earn money, many people are also aiming to train some skills along with the income. For those that are purely to make money, they go to the advanced merchanting and trading section currently. So, we can't really follow the other page's way, though I do like the detailed page. Creating a template for it in the sandbox. -13:21, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
- I made a template that Cook me Plox wanted in my sandbox if anyone cares to see what it could look like on our wiki -- 02:15, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
Support - Makes sense to me, so I guess I'll support. Besides, Cook threatened to hunt me down if I didn't comment on this discussion, so I commented. Happy now, Cook?  03:50, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
Support - I like Cook's example, although it does look in need of simplification. I don't actively money-make per se, but with resource skills becoming more profitable again starting from where the skill money-making guides left off is probably a good start. cqm talk 12:12, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
Comment - The bigger issue with money making guides is that they include too many poor money-making methods, or include those rendered obsolete. (For example, who's going to farm toadflax if ranarrs are more profit?) This is being discussed above, but I should reiterate that a lot of the methods presented don't actually make that much, and due to constantly changing market prices, these guides will require some time to maintain. --LiquidTalk 21:51, February 28, 2012 (UTC)
- -I completely agree with Liquidhelium. 16:08, March 8, 2012 (UTC)
Comment - Another point I believe I mentioned, it would also give us a chance to clean up the guides. --01:25, March 3, 2012 (UTC)
Neutral, Leaning to Oppose - I think that the formatting is okay for the moment, and I really don't think they all need a redo. However, I do think that they could seriously use an update in actual money making techniques, since the most of them are extremely outdated or just simply uselss (10k/hour or something crazy like that) 16:08, March 8, 2012 (UTC)
- Seriously? Go look at some of the money making guides before their "remake". While some were "fair", others are bloated, outdated, and a mess. People don't care about methods that make 10,000 coins an hour. Nor do they want to spend an hour reading through the page (good fight for that 10,000 coins). I'd like to present exhibit A; dubbed "the nightmare from the bytes". Be afraid, be very afraid. Also, explain how the proposal in would in any way make the pages worse. Hofmic Talk 00:28, March 9, 2012 (UTC)
Support - I like the new format and it wouldn't hurt to have it but as Tech said, the money making methods are really not that good. Take killing blue dragons for example, I made 240k in 1 hour while in the guide it states 500k. I do have a low combat level too, so let's also take sharks for example. I made 40k in one hour at 89 Fishing while the guide states 131k at 80+. The guides are highly inaccurate and have bad methods. Don't even get me started on Misc. and Merchanting. --Caek iz ossum talk om nom 20:41, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
- It is noteworthy that it's impossible to make a formula that will cover everyone (we probably should put a template on each of the pages about the potential inaccuracy, though). Blue dragons; the value of killing blue dragons in an hour is entirely dependent on the speed you can kill them and inventory space available. Obviously a level 125 player with a War tortoise can make far more than a level 90 with no beast of burden. And in addition to the level difference, the equipment makes a huge difference. I'll kill a lot more in full Bandos armour with a chaotic rapier, and dragon fire shield than a player with full rune armour, a dragon longsword, and anti-dragon shield. Throw in some super potions and one player can be killing twice as fast as the other, while holding nearly twice the number of bones/hides per trip. The result is that they could make well over double the lower level player, and they aren't even close to being maxed out or with by any means the best equipment.
- As for the sharks, the level again makes a big difference. Level 80 fishing is incredibly slow for sharks, with them not speeding up to a reasonable speed till around 90+ (and even then, they kinda suck). The presence of a familiar can also make a noticable difference. Of course, none of that explains why a level 89 can't surpass the stated amount that can be made at level 80+, particularly by a difference of more than 200%. The formula may be a bit overzealous, though that's not at all unique to the proposed improvements to money making guides; the old guides were far, far worse, with some methods stating you could make money with what would actually be a loss. On a side note, if you could just post the amount of sharks you can fish in an hour, I'll happily ensure that one section of the money making guide is more accurate. Baby steps! Hofmic Talk 06:32, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
- Well the guides should have things a low level can do, The highest summoning I saw someone my lvl was around 30 and he said it was all lamps. They won't be able to summon a familiar to money making more efficient. I don't think a lvl 125 would be looking at a money making guide, or else they'd be a choob. We might want to focus the guides more on low levels instead of high levels with dfs's, bandos, and rapiers. Same thing with sharks, I do not have a high enough summoning lvl to summon a familiar, and it doesn't mention ANYWHERE in the money making guides to use a familiar to increase efficiency. --Caek iz ossum talk om nom 02:35, March 13, 2012 (UTC)
Support - The money making guides are often quite disorganized, I find it very messy and hard to follow, and as homfic said, the profit/efficiency is way off. -- RussellC 01:25, March 13, 2012 (UTC)
- Strong Support - Complete support, color code would be a good idea also... Runemoro (talk) 11:06, March 13, 2012 (UTC)
- Well, I for one obviously am, and I believe cook was going to help me with it? and anyone else who is willing to take on this project too. -- 00:20, March 27, 2012 (UTC)
Comment, we have gone making the pages, as several users on chat have urged us to RS:BB, the links are currently catergorized on User:Cire04/Money making guide, which wont be the ending results, it's just for us to catergorize it for now, just look at the links and you can see it's a fine idea. thanks. 01:55, April 1, 2012 (UTC)
Closed - The new MMG tables are being made23:17, April 1, 2012 (UTC)