Forum:Change DBAN to DBAD

From the RuneScape Wiki, the wiki for all things RuneScape
Jump to: navigation, search
Forums: Yew Grove > Change DBAN to DBAD
Archive
This page or section is an archive.
Please do not edit the contents of this page.
This thread was archived on 7 July 2010 by Soldier 1033.

This is another thing that has been discussed lately. Don't be a noob really doesn't carry the same meaning as Don't be a dick. I call people noobs all the time, it's a very varied term. It's almost playful, it doesn't mean anything pretty much. I think we should revert it back to the original wikipedia name, because that carries the full weight of it. Yes, it's offensive. Well I have news for you, It's meant to be offensive. It carries the true meaning of the policy and therefore I see it as a beneficial change. HaloTalk 19:30, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

P.S. Sorry Diriz, you were taking too long. HaloTalk 19:30, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Support - As nominator. HaloTalk 19:30, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Support - It really doesn't have the same meaning.

Runecrafting MythbustermaTalk   HSCabbage.png<= BRASSICA PRIME

21:15, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Support - "Dick" may be an offensive word to some. It is used to describe a jerk. The policy asks that you do not be an offensive jerk. "Dick" perfectly describes what we don't want you to be. "Noob" sure as all hell does not describe this. "Noob" is something we all spam on each others' talk pages when we archive. "Noob" is something Lvl 138 calls Lvl 3, simply because Lvl 3 does not have high level equipment or skills. "Noob" can be used to describe a friend, as a joke. This policy does not ask you to not be a "noob". There is a huge difference between "dick" and "noob".

Anyone offended by seeing "dick" in the title of this policy is too closed-minded to see the meaning behind the policy. They are too immature to pull themselves up from the floor and stop thinking "OMGZ BAD WORD, I NOT GONNA READ DIS". Sorry kids, but "swear words" are all around the Earth, and sometimes it's necessary to use them to get a point across.

P.S. - I don't mind it, Halo, doesn't matter to me who starts the thread, just as long as we get the discussion started Smile Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 22:45, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I'm a Christian. Anyone who is seriously offended at this context of the word dick needs to <insert words here>. Great idea. ajr 22:47, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Strong Support - This word carries a lot more meaning and can make the "dick" realize that he was being a dick. It sounds nice too. Rolls off the tongue (keyboard, derp) quickly. Snowball (2006 Christmas event) 5.png Alex1496 Snowball (2006 Christmas event) 5.png 22:49, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Noob just doesn't stick to the point of the essay. Dick does. Noob isn't that harsh enough. ~MuzTalk 22:54, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Support - DBAD is already a shortcut to it and the original name of the policy on wikipedia (i know RS:NOT#WIKIPEDIA but it is what it is based on).Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 00:45, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Yeah, I agree, "noob" just doesn't cut it. "Dick" works, and it's easy enough to change. I anticipate some people complaining (or using the fact we have dick in an article as a reason they can swear), but it doesn't really matter. Noob doesn't work. ʞooɔ 00:51, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral - I didn't know the wording matters, I thought you were supposed to follow it's spirit... Full Slayer Helmet! Evil1888 Talk A's L Dragon Platebody! 00:52, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Yes you are meant to follow the spirit, but that doesn't mean everyone does.Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 00:56, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
I don't know about you, but I think Don't be a noob has a different "spirit" than Don't be a dick. ʞooɔ 00:57, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
It's current "spirit" is overshadowed by the unfitting title. You can't focus on the spirit when it's name (the most prominent feature of the policy) is unfitting and incorrect. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 00:58, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I couldn't take it seriously as DBAN, it was a joke. Darn few people would care about being called a noob. This works the way it is supposed to. --Degenret01 00:55, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Pretty much following what's already been said, "noob" doesn't really make that big of a point. BerserkHackr 00:59, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Wait...since when was it "noob" in the first place?! That's ridiculous. Take care, Elijah doucheface.png 03:27, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Support - per all. Brilliant idea now someones thought of it. Very bold, well done. 222 talk 06:33, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Policies are serious, the word noob isn't. Ruud (talk)(Suggest me naems) 12:55, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Like I did many suns and moons ago. The word dick is used so much in modern society and media even my cousins knew the word at age 8. If someone can't handle it they need to turn on the news and see life isn't all smiles and butterflies, it's serious. Zaros symbol.pngChaos Monk Talk SignCoins 250.png 17:30, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Support - per all. Andrew talk 19:34, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I didn't like it when it was changed, and after seeing it used for some time, I have to say that DBAD was far better. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 07:05, July 2, 2010 (UTC) 

RS:SNOW? - Self-explanatory... 222 talk 08:21, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Too early. HaloTalk 08:30, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
I'm pretty impatient, ain't I 222 talk 08:43, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, but definitely no. This isn't a clear cut common sense change, and we can possibly anticipate some opposition. Let's wait. ʞooɔ 08:52, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
Eh? Just declaring the fact im impatient 222 talk 09:20, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral - Per Evil, I honestly don't think it'd change anything. bad_fetustalk 22:16, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Language is everything, dumbing it down and censoring the original essay was not necessary. "That government is best which governs least" - Henry David Thoreau. Ryan PM 23:15, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per all ;Can someone link me the discussion to change it to DBAN? (davelopo) 01:31, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

I believe when we adopted the policy it was just assumed DBAD was too harsh and changed to DBAN then. I do not believe there was a discussion over it, but I could be wrong. HaloTalk 01:34, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Strong Oppose - I can't take a policy seriously that has this image on it. There are plenty of other words we could use to get the point across that are more mature and civil than "Noob" or the alternative. I would be happy to re-write the essay with the title "Be Mature" or something that general effect, anything to get away from the former title. Do I want it to stay as DBAN? Not really. Would I pick DBAN over DBAD any day? Yes. I am not saying this to ensure that we don't "offend" anyone with the language, though I find the alternative title to be childish and crass, words I never want to be used to describe any aspect of the community supported by consensus. If we go with DBAD, I would rather see the policy go away all together. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 02:45, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Common sense would tell you we are all mature enough to handle the word dick, no? It also isn't like we're going to put that image in the policy. Unless the wiki is full of giggling 10-year-olds who can't say it without laughing hysterically, I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Andrew talk 03:18, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Just going to say that it is only the name that will change so that picture won't be added, just cause wikipedia does it doesn't mean we do.Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 03:20, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
I never said the image would be implemented, though I don't feel that diminishes the point. As for Soldier, while I understand your position, I have to disagree with you entirely. I can handle the language, but that's not relevant to my opposition. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 03:23, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Then what is your point? Andrew talk 03:25, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
There are a lot of words in the world. Why do we have to choose dick to add to a policy title when we can choose something that will get the point across without using words some may disagree with (for reasons other than them being offensive to some people). As I said, I find use of the word in a policy to be out of place. I don't want to stick to DBAN, but DBAD is much, much worse. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 03:29, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
What would you say to don't be an idiot?.Hunter cape (t).png Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask.png 03:31, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
It's better than DBAD and DBAN. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 03:32, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Have you noticed that no one else is bothered by using the word dick in the policy? As Halo said, it's meant to offend. It gets the point across. Andrew talk 03:35, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
My sister is bothered by pie in all its forms, though everyone I know likes it anyway. If the taste of it bothers her, then it does. The way other people perceive it has nothing to do with anything. It does not need to be offensive to be just as functional, so why make it that way? Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 03:41, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
I'm sorry, does your sister use this wiki and does the word dick bother her? Andrew talk 03:43, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
It's a comparison, so that does not matter in the least bit. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 03:44, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
I understand, but I still don't see this as being a big deal, hence the mountain out of a molehill reference. Andrew talk 04:06, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
I am still not sure why you asked me if my sister uses the wiki or not, as it's irrelevant to the discussion. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 11:54, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

(Reset tabs) - Could we maybe come up with a compromise? ʞooɔ 03:42, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Strong Oppose - We don't mention private parts, DBAN is fine. RSREALM THE ROCKING FIRE! 03:37, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Oh my goodness..RS:UCS please. Andrew talk 03:38, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Support - As far as I know, there isn't any reason to not use it, except that it may offend. That's the only point steler has made so far,l even though he says it isn't. And also as far as I know, we aren't censored. If jagex decided to put a bunch of swears in the game and didn't remove them, they would be on this wiki too. Although we don't have an actual policy on swearing (although I see to recall a forum about it before, I dont' think anything came out of it.), we are similiar to wikipedia in that we may be offensive. And dbad is how it is known. Why must we change it, simply for someone who made be offended, or someone who may complain? There shouldn't need to be a compromise on such a basic policy as this. COKBucket detail.pngrwojy 03:51, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Though it will be better to use "Don't be a fucking retard." It would be more offensive and impactful. People who are real dicks would tend to be immature and not be bothered about the fact that they are called a dick, and may even laugh and make a joke out of it. Don't be a fucking retard sends a strong message that "If you are here to disrupt this wiki, then fuck off." Should fuck be too offensive a word to use, then "Don't be a freaking retard" or "Don't be a freak" may be possible substitutes. Kyosinn95 04:33, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

I think thats a bit over the top. 222 talk 06:12, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Not really, I think dick is a bit too childish. I would have opposed if wikipedia didn't use it. Kyosinn95 06:25, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Strong Oppose -- noob is supposed to be offensive and insulting, it's not supposed to be playful. Just because one small community uses it wrong doesn't mean that the meaning changes. DBAN and DBAD are synonymous, for all but cases of misinformation. Aitamen 06:29, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Well the problem is NOOB is not offensive or insulting at all. 222 talk
Agreed. In this age, even fuck is not an offensive word anymore.Kyosinn95 06:36, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, I think thats totally incorrect. the f word is still highly offensive to many people. 222 talk 06:40, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Sure, but noob, to anyone who thinks of RS as a full-fledged MMO, is bound to be offensive as well. Flames will roll off the backs of trolls, so why not leave the article as it stands? Also, DBAN has a ton of history to it.
I don't know if this change anything, but Jagex encourages players to not report other players for saying "noob" as an insult. Anyone who takes offense by it clearly has little backbone. "Noob" does not discriminate, it is not racist, it is surely not serious. It only makes fun in the sense that the receiver is lower than the insulter, in some way, by the insulter's standards, e.g., "Lol, noob, you have 18 Cooking? ROFL."
In regards to DBAN having history.... err, no? What, the "noob" part has history? What do you mean? Is it somehow important to the policy that it started as "Don't be a noob"? That is no reason to keep it as is. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 06:53, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
DBAN (or Deban, for those who know it) is much older than RS. And yeah, noob has history... those who know said history wouldn't use it as a minor belittling. Just because Jagex spouts nonsense doesn't mean anything. Macros and bots are still two separate things, newb doesn't mean anything similar to noob... Runescape, while it tries to convince most otherwise, is still in the same realm as all other MMOs, and thus they share the same jargon, where applicable.Aitamen 07:00, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
... so? What is your point? Why is the fact that DBAN has a history important? Everything in the universe has a history, this comment has history, the complexion of your face has a history, the lifespan of a tree has history, the paint on my bedroom walls have a history. So?
DBAN (the policy we are discussing on this page) is not older than RS. The policy was put into place months ago. RS is ten years old. Sure, maybe the saying "don't be a noob!" has been said before on the internet, or maybe on other gaming sites, but that has zero relevance to this discussion. This discussion was created to propose that our RuneScape Wiki policy "Don't be a noob" have it's name changed to "Don't be a dick". You're speaking nonsense. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 07:06, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
My argument was more for stopping the misuse of noob, one chunk of RS at a time. The wiki policy is one of the very few places it's used properly.Aitamen 07:09, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
If the wiki policy uses it correctly, why are you here? First off, we're not trying to reform RuneScape's community's use of the word "noob"; you are. Secondly, your point is something totally irrelevant to this thread. If you'd like to reform how people use "noob", sure, go ahead, be my guest, I'm not stopping you, however this thread is not the place for it. The Yew Grove is not the place for it. Maybe you could create some kind of club or organization promoting your reform of the usage of "noob", I don't know, but I do know that this thread is for discussing whether or not (Support or Oppose) we should change our policy's name. Your point is totally off-topic and irrelevant to what we are discussing. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 07:16, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
I concede the point, and apologize.Aitamen 07:19, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
That's alright. As you've conceded your point, I've crossed out your Strong Oppose vote you made above. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 21:15, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Point is - I don't think dicks will even read the rules in the first place.Kyosinn95 06:38, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

You really shouldn't make a new section for that. 222 talk 06:40, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
I disagree. Dicks don't have to be ruthless people who don't care about anything, including policies. People don't have to be permanent dicks. Someone, for example, may be a nice person usually, but then has a bad day and tells everyone to fuck off. They were a dick for that one day, and so should read the policy carefully to ensure that something like that doesn't happen again. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 06:42, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Okay, that's enough use of the f word. That one does offend some people. We can discuss this without spouting off swear words left and right, no? Andrew talk 07:15, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
It shouldn't offend people as I'm not directing it at them, I was using it to prove a point with an example. I'm not being uncivil, I'm not spouting off swear words left and right, and I'm surely not intentionally directing it at someone to hurt them. I was using it as an example for what a "dick" might say. I myself, Lil Diriz 77, did not use it as part of my speech. One could argue that "dick" is a "swear word", and you've said it at least once on this thread. Are you going to tell me that some people aren't offended by "dick"? I know many people who would consider "dick" a "swear word", ask the teachers at my school. You took my use of the F word out of context, Andrew. I'll censor it if it's such a problem, but I really shouldn't have to. Coincidentally, this fits with what I said above - sometimes "swear words" should be used to prove a point. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 07:28, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
I realize that you aren't being uncivil and I was not just referring to you. Please don't turn this into something personal. I wasn't just directing it at you. :s Now, I am asking you guys to take it easy on the swear words. I do understand that you are just using them to prove a point, but common sense tells you that the f word does bother people a lot more. If you look back on previous discussions where the f word was used, people go back and censor it out or ask people to stop. This isn't something to argue or debate, it's a simple request. Take it easy on the f word. Andrew talk 07:35, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Well, considering you :tabbed: it as a reply to my comment, it seemed personal, and so I replied to you. It is something to argue, because I'm quite sick and tired of being censored when I'm trying to make a civilized, non-offensive point. We have no policy which says we can't use "swear words" when making a civilized, non-offensive point. If we did, everybody in this thread would be warned, blocked, or banned, including you. I'm sorry if my wording offends you and/or others, but you and/or others have no reason to be offended; four letters put together, used as a word coming from another, nonexistent human (a "dick") should not offend anyone. I did not direct it at anyone in my voice, I quoted it from a potential "dick". Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 08:04, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
I apologize if I misled you then. It wasn't intentional. I realize that there is no policy for this, which is why I said it was a request. You don't have to listen. I was simply requesting that you all take it easy on the swearing. I am not offended, but I know that there are many active wikians that visit the Yew Grove that are offended by the f word, so I requested it for their benefit. Now, if you don't want to listen, that's up to you, but there is nothing to argue. Either you ignore my request or you don't. Andrew talk 08:11, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
And I apologize for making this personal, but this is just something I've always felt strongly about, and I guess I felt a bit intimidated that I was requested by an admin, as if I had to do it. That was wrong of me. I'm going to uncensor my words now, as I've explained why they shouldn't be offensive to anyone. I hope you don't feel like I'm now "not listening" or "ignoring" you, but I've explained myself thoroughly to prove otherwise. Sorry for the mix-up. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 08:18, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
(Resetting Tabs) - Andrew, I actually think censoring is worse, because most anyone can figure it out. So it's still like you're swearing, but you don't actually have the ... guts ... (yes, I did want to put something else there) to say it outright. I personally try to keep my swearing only in areas of dramatic effect. HaloTalk 13:17, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Seriously, people named Richard often shorten the name to Dick. If you take that word offensively in the wrong way, that's not our problem. The phrase "Don't be a dick" is actually quite historical if I recall correctly.  Tien  15:39, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

-pokes watergate scandal- (davelopo) 19:19, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I really want a link to the discussion where we decided to change it to DBAN. I'd swear, if it didn't seem like there's (creepily) no evidence that it ever existed as DBAD, that it used to be DBAD but was changed. But I'm not sure it did. Can someone clear this up? I'm confused. (davelopo) 19:43, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

A few months ago there was a sub-proposal on a Yew Grove topic to make DBAD an official policy, though the majority of those supporting wanted it to be named DBAN instead, so that was the consensus. I long since forgotten the thread's title. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 19:57, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
I can't remember the title, but I remember it was a subsection of one of the Clan chat threads. When Steler mentioned this to me in the CC a while ago, I found the thread and I think I counted 2 supporters for DBAN, and one against. I would hardly call that consensus. I think that part of the thread simply didn't get the exposure it deserved. ʞooɔ 20:54, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Edit: Forum:Spamming other clan chats ʞooɔ 21:04, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Extreamly Strong Oppose- Its not offensive, its immature. Seriously, just because we are a bunch of 15 year olds doesn't mean we should act that way.

Third age robe top.png 3rd age farcaster Third age ranger body.png

20:06, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

You really should look into this more before jumping to such conclusions :s Andrew talk 21:01, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Wow, how is "dick" immature? It's not like we're screaming at our readers "lolz if u be a dickhead den u gunna get bannt lolz!11". We're formally requesting that our readers don't be jerks to others. "Dick" fits so much better in the title because it makes the reader realize that they might have been a dick. And what do our ages have to do with anything? Nothing, really. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 21:12, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Hey, uh...what about "Jerk"? ʞooɔ 21:39, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
I guess that's an option, but I'd rather use "dick", personally. Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 21:52, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
No one here has supported the use of the word "dick" based on what you're thinking of.  Tien  21:41, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Tbh, I'd rather have jerk too. bad_fetustalk 21:45, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
I really think that communicates that we aren't mature enough to handle the word dick. I believe that we indeed ARE mature enough to handle the use of such language to emphasize the point. HaloTalk 21:51, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
If you don't start spelling extremely right I'm going to begin thinking you're immature as it's not an actual thing. If you feel strongly about something you may state "Strong Oppose", extremely strong oppose just shows you don't feel as if people will listen to "Strong Oppose" enough, which is somewhat immature in my view. Somewhat I was kidding...but seriously, spell extremely right if you are going to use it, but you really shouldn't be using it at all. HaloTalk 21:46, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Don't be a jerk has exactly the same meaning with dbad, and per Steler, I don't think we should have a word like dick in a policy. Jerk is slightly better to use. bad_fetustalk 21:54, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Dick is commonly known to also mean jerk. If you can't look past its other meaning which is quite obviously not implied in the slightest here, I'm sorry. Andrew talk 21:59, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Can you give me one reason why we should use dick instead of jerk? They have exactly the same meaning. bad_fetustalk 22:04, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Can you give me one reason why we should use jerk instead of dick? They have exactly the same meaning. Wink Andrew talk 22:07, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
No it doesn't (to Chess' early comment-edit conflict(s)), they have VERY different meanings. And it's not a policy in any case, it's an essay. Essays do NOT have to be followed, and can't be cited as actually policy, but people follow them generally anyways. HaloTalk 22:06, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
People can find dick offensive. bad_fetustalk 22:25, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
It's been established that that isn't really an issue here. Now can we please move on? Andrew talk 22:29, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Jerk = dick, without people finding it offensive. So, there is simply no point of using dick. bad_fetustalk 22:31, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
You've completely ignored what I said. It's been established that dick being offensive isn't an issue here. Andrew talk 22:33, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
You've basically no point for picking dick, however, I do have one for picking jerk, even if it's not a very important point, it's still a point. bad_fetustalk 22:44, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
No point? Perhaps you should re-read this entire discussion. Andrew talk 22:46, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
You simply couldn't find anything to say when I asked why we should pick dick over jerk. This entire discussion is about why dick is better than noob, it's completely irrelevant to what we are discussing right now. bad_fetustalk 22:51, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

(Resetting tabs). Chess. This thread is about renaming it "Don't be a dick". If "Dick" is that offensive to you, you are welcome to make the thread to rename DBAN/DBAD to DBAJ. As for here, I don't believe this discussion is going anywhere, but if you guys feel you must continue, don't let me stop you. HaloTalk 22:55, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Also, jerk can be used offensively as a verb. "But that doesn't fit in the context of the title!" Well, that's exactly our point. We are using dick to mean one thing, not the other.  Tien  22:56, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Chess, the word dick has a much stronger negative connotative meaning. It is supposed to tell you that your behavior is not just wrong or bad, but shockingly bad, rude, offensive, to the point no one wants to listen to another thing you say because you are sucking so bad. No other word carries that strength of impact behind it, which is why it was chosen. Jerk, noob, troll, idiot, none of them are nearly as bad. The entire point is to use the word that really drives home the point that "Wow, you offend all by your very existence". That is supposed to make people realize they need to step back and reevaluate their behavior. No other word will make people do this.--Degenret01 23:43, July 3, 2010 (UTC)


Support - ^Lil diriz's reasons --Iiii I I I 22:10, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

All threw the thread I see people saying that the other ideas (noob, jerk) aren't harsh enough, and nothing has as "strong a negative connotative meaning." But why do we need it to be so strong? Being a "dick" is an opinion- I view some people on this thread as jerks, or dicks, or noobs, and I'm sure people have viewed me as being a jerk/dick/noob, and yet I don't consider myself one. Thus, how can it be so unbelievably serious if its not even clearly defined?

I support using jerk, but i wouldn't care if it stayed as noob. You shouldn't use offensive language unless its ABSOLUTELY necessary, and here is clearly isn't.

Third age robe top.png 3rd age farcaster Third age ranger body.png

00:32, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

I disagree. It's an essay, not a policy, so it's fine. I see it as absolutely necessary (Degen makes a good explaination above). The main reason for not using profane terms is for maturity right? Because we either don't believe people here are mature enough to handle it, or we are trying to avoid "OMG YOUR SUCH A BASTARD" or something similar. I believe people are mature enough to handle it. And I also believe that I haven't seen too many cases of the second example. In acknowledgment of those facts, I think we are being more immature to CENSOR it, if it is going to be based of DBAD (which it is and always will be). I see it that we are being more immature than if we were to delete the essay/change to DBAD. I like the essay, thus changing to DBAD was the obvious choice for me. We need it strong so people will think about it. If someone says you are a jerk/noob, you aren't going to have a second thought. You're either just gonna be like whatever, or agree with them and move on. If someone says, "Hey, dude, you're being a dick", you're going to take it very hard most likely, meaning you will think about it later and hopefully reform your behavior. As such I don't think anything else gets the point across right. HaloTalk 00:47, July 4, 2010 (UTC)
At this point if you or anyone else is going to play the "offensive language" card then I am done trying to reason with you. It has been made clear over nine thousand times that it isn't offensive language and there is a huge wall of supports to show that the community agrees. Quit focusing on the other definition of dick. People are NOT going to think, "Oh, penis, I am so offended!" when they see Don't be a dick. They are going to use common sense and figure out pretty quickly that that isn't the definition of dick that is implied, and it isn't going to bother them. Andrew talk 03:52, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

Support DBAD - if you don't like the term, then don't have the attitude this policy talks about. Noob is so shallow, everyone calls everyone that.--Cheers, Off-hand ascension crossbow.pngYodaAscension crossbow.png 04:19, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

Guys, dick is not something "your going to take very hard". I get called a dick what? 8 times a day on the internet and another 10 irl? Why are we copying normal wiki's policy at all? The complaint that we baby-ed down their version does make some since- but why are we copying it at all, baby-ed down or not? Soldier, you are basically saying that its not offensive and isn't going to bother them, while halo is arguing that its so impossibly harsh that even the most serious trolls will stop their actions if they are called a "dick". 15:26, July 4, 2010 (UTC)
Oh my goodness, it's an essay name for crying out loud. You are making a very large mountain out of a very small molehill. Give it up and move on. Andrew talk 16:10, July 4, 2010 (UTC)
Hypocrite RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 02:31, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
Comment - I think he has a point. Some people supporting the change are saying that "dick" is so offensive that it will be more effective in stopping trolls. Others are saying that it's not offensive and we're mature enough to handle it, so there's no reason to censor it with "noob" or something else. Personally, I don't care what word is used as long as we know that we should not be acting like a dick/noob/jerk/idiot/whatever. Honestly, I don't think using a more "powerful" word like "dick" is going to make the policy more effective, and I don't think a less "powerful" word like "noob" is going to be less effective. As such, I am neutral on this issue. Leftiness 19:58, July 4, 2010 (UTC)
Have to say, but could trolls take offense by this and...troll even more? Kind of a DFTT thing maybe. I don't know. ʞooɔ 20:00, July 4, 2010 (UTC)
No, it's existed for quite awhile on Wikipedia and we've linked it plenty of times here on the wiki before. Common sense tells you that trolls will troll. Andrew talk 22:06, July 4, 2010 (UTC)
Maybe. Just an idea. ʞooɔ 22:47, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

Massive oppose - The word dick is a terrible word to use, I know that y'all gonna start going mad on me because of this and you are all going to spit out 5000 different policies and legal reasons to why I'm wrong, but the word dick is just a poor word to use... I don't see the whole point of renaming this policy in the first place. As per above, I would easily prefer DBAN over DBAD, however I would prefer a different word than dick over the use of noob, for example and yet again as per above: Jerk. It has the same meaning and has less chance of causing offense issues. DBAJ sounds much better in my opinion RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 02:31, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

You obviously haven't read this entire discussion as more than enough reasons have been given to back up using DBAD. DBAN is a terrible wording choice and "jerk" does not have any strong emphasis on it. My goodness people, quit focusing on the other definition of dick. Use common sense. Andrew talk 03:15, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
This isn't about people thinking it's "Don't be a penis". It's quite obvious that they don't think that. They think that's it's offensive and the reasoning (that it should be offensive) isn't true. That's why they want to have a harder hitting word like jerk, but they don't want "dick" either. ʞooɔ 03:37, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I realize this, and it's been established that "jerk" doesn't have that same impact. Andrew talk 03:38, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I always thought changing it to noob was foolish. If the word "dick" offends you, you should not be browsing the internet. --Aburnett(Talk) 04:24, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

+1 Andrew talk 04:44, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Why cant it be "Don't be an ass"? BUKKITZ WEEL SMITE YOU!!!Murd3rlogistTalk Contribs Sign here 06:59, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Whatever it's changed to, I support a name change. DBAN doesn't sound strong enough. Suppa chuppa Talk 07:02, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
If we are gonna do that, mine as well make it DBAAH (asshole). Which, might I add, is not what I'm going for with this name change. HaloTalk 07:05, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
I still like "Dont be an ass". BUKKITZ WEEL SMITE YOU!!!Murd3rlogistTalk Contribs Sign here 07:12, July 5, 2010 (UTC)


Comment - This shouldn't even need a discussion. DBAD is a quick simple (and in my opinion, friendly) way to tell someone to quit talking about whatever they're talking about. DBAD and DBAN are two seperate things, and both are just fine. I have been given a warning by Steler a time or two for telling another Mookie to DBAD, however. It was with good intentions, not name calling. Ranged Synkk Talk Slayer 08:28, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

The policy itself states that one should not tell others when they are in violation of the policy other than extreme conditions, as it will decrease the chances the other will listen to you almost down to zero. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 14:05, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I don't like "jerk". When I think of someone calling me a jerk, it makes me think of a 10-year-old who is getting very angry but doesn't know any other words to insult me. Honestly, that sounds exactly like the kind of person who would get trolled more. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL Talk - Contribs 14:43, July 5, 2010 (UTC) 

Comment - If you're being a jerk and someone calls you out on it, it shouldn't be an issue. I think it's great that someone else (usually a friend) can tell you to cool off when an argument is getting heated. Also, why is DBAN/DBAD a policy? Just silly in my opinion. Ranged Synkk Talk Slayer 15:37, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I continue to see the argument that it supposed to be offensive. However, does it need to be offensive? Will an "offensive" title (some of those supporting have made the point that it will not be offensive, voiding out the point that it is supposed be) have any more of an effect than one that does not? The more I think about these two things, the more the answer becomes no. I don't think anyone here can argue with the fact that the word is considered vulgar when used in this way, considering that it was originally used as a nickname for those named Richard. Using vulgar terms in a policy is not professional in the least bit, and to me, that's not a molehill. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 16:19, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Once again. It's not a policy, it's an essay. Other than that I'm not going to bother arguing, because everything else has already been beaten past the dead horse stage. HaloTalk 16:22, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
I figured that comment was a good place to stop as well. Everyone here is so adamant about their position it's a waste of time to continue. Magic-icon.pngStelercusIlluminated Book of Balance.png 16:45, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
My views on this wiki just took a massive negative dent then... Clearly, this wiki's professionalism just got slaughtered... RSN: Warthog Rhys Talk Completionist's cape... Coming soon. 18:27, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
You need to look into things more. :/ Andrew talk 18:35, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
Really? So Wikipedia is also unprofessional? I support per all (everyone's made good points already; no need to repeat). White partyhat old.png C Teng talk 14:26, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
So using a supposed "swear word" makes us unprofessional? Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 17:27, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - If you have a problem with "swear words", then I suggest you stop browsing the internet entirely, as Aburnett said. Using words is not something to make anyone unprofessional. If you're offended by such words, fine, but that's on you. You and only you are choosing to be offended by such words, when really, there is no reason to be offended. Nobody is directing it at you offensively, no one is saying it just to be a troll. We say "don't be a dick" simply for the matter that people don't be a dick. Nobody likes a jerk who goes around trolling others with negative intentions, and the proposed wording gets that point across quite nicely.

My use of the word "you" in this paragraph refers to anyone who opposes "dick" because it is "offensive". Quest point cape.pngLil Diriz 77 Talk Summoning-icon.png 17:24, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Support DBAD - Since the entire point was to grab attention. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 17:38, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

continued...

I made a new section, as that one was getting laggy. Hope no1 minds.


What does "dick" being offensive help? Do you honestly think that someone would stop being a "dick" because they got called a "dick", when they wouldn't have stopped when they were called a jerk? And it is a fact that it is immature. IT IS SLANG FOR GODSAKE. No good encyclopedia would EVER use slang unless it was the only way to say what they ment- and this clearly isn't the only way to say it.


The essay is not very precise, thus it is nearly completely useless. After reading it I have absolutely no idea what a "dick" is, and absolutely no idea what the point of the essay is. People assume they are right, and are not going to suddenly start behaving if they read the essay and manage to somehow conclude that they have been a "dick". Even if i do conclude that I have been a "dick", theres absolutely NO incentive for me to stop, as NO MATTER HOW "DICKISH" I ACT, I WONT BE BLOCKED.


Since being a "dick" is not a blockable offense, I don't see why we need to be so offensive in our essay. Couldn't we just say "be constructive?" Look at the policys- while they deal with serious, blockable things, they don't sound nearly as harsh.

Third age robe top.png 3rd age farcaster Third age ranger body.png

17:50, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Clearly you have once again brushed aside everything we've said and tried to call it "immature" and "offensive". Apparently you are saying Wikipedia isn't a good encyclopedia..interesting. Everyone else has agreed to let this one go as arguing at this point is futile. We have community consensus. Andrew talk 17:57, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
Ok, which of my points can be negated by something "you've said?" Secondly, YES my respect for wikipedia is halved, maby more, because of their use of that word. We are, however, far, far worse then them for simply copying their policys/essays.
Also, please try to be constructive... saying that I'm brushing aside "everything we've said" is not constructive, nor is trying to ram this threw. Is there nothing that both the opposers and the supporters can agree to? Can we not meet in the middle? If wikia had said jerk, I'm positive you wouldn't be arguing for us to replace jerk with dick. 18:31, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
In my mind and many other people's mind, no one word has the same communication as dick. Noob...obviously right? Idiot...well you can be a smart dick, can you not? Jerk...this is the closest, but it is not equal. You may get called a jerk and just blow it off, but you would have to be a really big ********* to just blow off someone calling you a dick. Why do you have a lack of respect for us being able to handle a word. It just shows that we are mature enough as a whole to deal with it. And that's a bad thing now? I really don't get where you are coming from. The point is...wikipedia doesn't have jerk, so it's irrelevant unless you want to go propose it there. HaloTalk 18:38, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
Dude... are you new to the internet or something? People call you a dick like.. 20 times a day? Thats MORE then i get called a jerk. I don't have a lack of respect, and its not about respect. As for wiki, the problem is that we COPY them. WE CAN'T SEEM TO BE ABLE TO ACCEPT CHANGE. Wiki has dick- oh, now we have to have dick JUST BECAUSE THEY DO. 18:44, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
No, actually people don't call me a dick much at all. Christine might have once, but that's once. Generally people are pretty nice to me. "my respect for wikipedia is halved, maby more"+"I don't have a lack of respect, and its not about respect"? Those 2 statements don't make much sense. I think pretty much everyone on this thread agrees DBAN is not adequate. I saw that, I wanted to change it. The best alternative I thought of was dick. The fact that I happened to get the idea from wikipedia is irrelevant. If you can propose a better word, I'll totally support it. But you haven't. HaloTalk 18:54, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Seriously, I think 3AF has a point. It's not that the word is too offensive for us to handle, and it's not that we're not mature enough, or that using it makes us more mature. I honestly think that the word "dick" is no more effective than the word "noob." The people who are going to laugh it off are going to laugh it off no matter what word is used, and the people who are going to read the policy and understand the meaning are going to understand the meaning regardless of what word we use. Personally, I think it's less professional to use the slang term because you think the offensive nature is going to make it more effective, especially since the offensive nature won't make it more effective. I think the policy should be deleted because, no matter which word we choose, it's not going to be more effective, it can only get less professional, and it really doesn't accomplish anything. If you feel the urge, telling someone "Hey, don't be a dick about it" is just as effective as referring them to RS:DBAD, and then it's just you who looks unprofessional, which is perfectly fine. Leftiness 19:18, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, first of halo i didnt say i have lost any respect for you. I may use dick myself every so often, my brother and sister use it, and most of my friends use it, and thats acceptable. However, if i was making an add, book, wrighting a report, etc, i would most certainly NOT use it. Regarding other words, what is a dick to you? Someone who likes to cause trouble? Someone who doesn't know better? Someone whos new? A penis? Someone whos trying their best but is causing trouble in the process? 20:07, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
Someone who is purposely annoying people. Basically like extreme trolling. HaloTalk 20:10, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
Then how about be constructive, be calm, or be civil? 20:20, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
It doesn't communicate the same thing to me. If you want to propose that go right ahead. HaloTalk 20:26, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Closed - We have already reached a consensus and further arguing is only pointless. It is clear that certain individuals have their own strong opinions and this could keep going around in circles forever, but overall the community has agreed to change DBAN to DBAD. I will now make this change official. Andrew talk 20:50, July 7, 2010 (UTC)