Forum:Automatically op our IRC channel operators
The status quo of operator status in the channel can be summed up with this quote from our IRC page:
|“||Authorized users (chanops who have registered with NickServ and have been added to the access list at level 5 or higher) can give themselves op access using the "/cs op #wikia-runescape" command... This should only be done when you need to make use of an administrative command, and should be undone with "/mode #wikia-runescape -o your nick" when this is complete.||”|
Essentially, channel operators remain de-opped until an opping action is necessary, at which point they must op themselves, and de-op themselves once they're finished. I would like to propose that we allow channel operators to remain opped at all times, rather than only when necessary. My reasons:
- Requiring an operator to op themselves before carrying out an op action, and deop themselves afterward, cuts down on efficiency. As an example, this could be a problem in the case of spam or troll attacks (which this channel most certainly does see), as it delays the operator from kicking and/or banning the user(s).
- The constant presence of channel operators in the channel provides a reassuring sense of authority; both new and experienced users can tell at a glance who to go to for administrative IRC issues, as well as who can deal with trouble when it comes up. When operators are de-opped, their names are dispersed among the total list of users in the channel (as opposed to sorted at the top of the list, depending on your client), and it's more difficult to tell if an operator is online.
- Likewise, the constant presence of channel operators may act as a deterrent to disruptive behavior like flaming, spamming or trolling.
- With the exception of some freenode channels, it's standard procedure for most IRC channels for operators to be opped at all times. Experienced users who come to our channel may become confused by the complete lack of operators.
- As nearly as I can determine, the only reason operators are kept de-opped is because freenode requests it, though they do not require it. Freenode's rationale for the request is that keeping operators de-opped reduces tension, though I don't believe we have that problem. Everyone on this wiki knows that administrators/CC ranks/IRC operators aren't above other users, so there is none of the fundamental mistrust of administrators/CC ranks/IRC operators that would cause that sort of drama.
Support - As long as no more of the adding voices (+v or -v) will be occurring then I'll continue to support this. It replicates what the CC already does with having ranks active while within the chat. Only nitpick of mine, the consistent changing of the ChanServ message. Ryan PM 03:06, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
- I believe you're referring to the topic. The ChanServ message is the one that ChanServ sends the user via private message upon entry to the channel; that can only be changed by managers. --LiquidTalk 03:08, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
Strong oppose - The need for ops is rare and does make you look above other users (literally, ops are at the top of webchat user list). The IRC hardly needs a "sense of authority" as when something like a spammer comes in, they are always dealt with swiftly. Having powers on can make you like like you are in charge of the place (and power all the time can go to your head). If you need ops for a moment, then op yourself, but if you don't need it, don't be op'ed; like you need a hammer sometimes, but you shouldn't need it all the time. When people op themselves, someone's in trouble (like cocking a gun... something is going to go down). It's the few places wiki-related that everyone is the same until some power is needed. It only takes a second to op yourself then a second to de-op yourself, so it can't be the tiring. Having people all on the same level is nice without people needing to have there powers on all the time; if power is needed, then use it quickly and put it away. 03:21, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
- You completely ignored what Andorin said. HaloTalk 03:41, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
- See, this is what I don't understand about the idea that ops must never be opped unless necessary: Most of your post justifies the practice as self-evident; that is, there is no inherent explanation for why it's a good idea except that it's your personal preference. Is there a good reason as to why everyone's status must be equal in the channel until an operator action is needed? Does this reason outweigh the arguments I gave in my proposal that demonstrate the benefits of always-on ops? Yes, spammers and trolls are dealt with, but I wonder how many of those spammers and trolls feel encouraged by seeing zero opped users in the channel, thinking they'll be able to get away with whatever they have planned. And for the record, the channel most certainly is run by the channel operators, who have been granted by the community the ability to make judgment calls in enforcing the channel's rules, and exerting authority in doing so. I understand that some people, evidently including yourself, have grown used to the tradition of keeping the operators down until otherwise necessary, but I haven't ever seen a good, solid reason for the practice. Just because it's always been done that way doesn't mean it makes sense to do so. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 03:42, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
- It works as is and there's no huge need for it to be changed. Spammers will spam and troll will troll, no matter what type of authority is near. Yes, it is on some personal preference as I like everyone on an even ground until there is a need for action that require the use of power. If it's not broken, don't fix it. 04:20, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
Strong Support - Every other network on the planet has the auto-op feature. Freenode requests that you don't do it for the stupidest reason I've ever heard. I made a channel the other night and it was a long process to figure out how to auto-op everyone. I don't know what Freenode's problem is, it's unnatural across IRC networks. Evil said: "Having powers on can make you like like you are in charge of the place". Umm, THEY ARE! Like I just said on the other thread, I don't know what it is with you people and the strong hatred towards having some sort of marker of authority.
Anyway, basically, it's unnatural not to have auto-ops. It looks really silly watching you all op yourselves, figure out the commands to kick/ban, then deop. The other night, by the time someone had their op status, the keylogger spammer had already joined and left the channel twice, spamming us with at least 10 lines of links. This is not swift, it's just funny to watch. Sorry to break it to the opposers, but you're not all the same. Some of you have more power than others, welcome to life. 04:53, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
Support - I was coming here to oppose, but honestly, it would help pwn the trolls faster. And I get a cool @ or green circle (depending on your client) on the IRC so I can be better than other users there too!! Ajraddatz 05:41, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
- Xchat by default doesn't have the @/+s (though you can configure it to if you wish), and you can change the icon for op/voice in the userlist (to some transparent pixels or whatever). I don't know about other clients, but I assume all but the most basic and boring clients (iDevice/Android clients, webchat) can be changed similarly. 16:42, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
Support - I don't see how any harm can come from this.06:39, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
- Don't worry, I already do this. ʞooɔ 07:51, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
Support - Fergie summed it up. This is no different to ranks and sysops in principle - they have additional tools to help them do their job. If we want everyone to be equal that badly, rank/crat everyone on the wiki. Real Nub 15:34, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
Support - I suggest enabling mode SECUREOPS when this passes. This will stop all users except +ao's from changing the ranks of other users when they are "messing around"08:27, February 9, 2011 (UTC)
- Freenode does not appear to support Secureops. (: 08:33, February 9, 2011 (UTC)
- List of freenode user and channel modes, list of chanserv commands for future reference. If I understand correctly, we've always had this enabled anyway. 11:01, February 9, 2011 (UTC)
Support - Having existing operators automatically opped on entry cuts down the time needed to sort out an offender, and in very rare cases allows people to be opped if ChanServ for whatever reason disconnects from IRC. Most importantly, having auto-ops makes it known who effectively runs the channel. We hilite admins on-wiki, so why not on the IRC channel?22:40, February 16, 2011 (UTC)