Forum:Another transcript thread
Hi, i am making some more suggestions to improve transcripts on the wiki thanks
22:31, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Proposal 1: Tabber
I initially saw this technique being used for different dialogue branches on *a wiki that must not be named*. Branching dialogue isn't the easiest to read on transcript pages, even with the recent CSS addition that indents different levels.
My first proposal is to make dialogue options into a tabber box, for example (using Transcript:Sandwich lady) :
- Sandwich Lady: Hello, dearie. Would you like some of my lovely baked goods?
- Select an Option
- (opens up store interface)
- Player: No, thank you.
- Sandwich lady: How lovely - I do like a good natter!
- Player: So, how's the sandwich business treating you?
- Sandwich lady: Oh, I can't complain! Well, I could - this market stall is a bit of a step down from the tea shop I used to own.
- Player: Oh, why? What happened?
- Sandwich lady: I had to sell up to settle my court fees.
- Player: Why would you need to pay court fees? You must be the friendliest person I've ever met!
- Sandwich lady: That's kind of you to say, love...but as nice as I might seem, I do have a bit of a short fuse. All I did was to put one of my baguettes in that gentleman's breadbasket!
- Player: That doesn't sound so bad.
- Sandwich lady:Well, it doesn't...until you realise that by 'breadbasket' I mean his stomach...and by 'put in' I mean repeatedly bash with violent force and murderous intent! And all because he took a pie when I'd only offered him a sandwich![sic]
- Player: When you put it like that...
- Sandwich lady: You'd at least think it would give me reputation enough to stop the thieving beggars around here pinching from my stall! But no - I'm still seen as that lovely old sandwich lady, wouldn't hurt a fly. So you'd best not steal from me or I'll knock your loaf
- Player: No, ma'am!
This would make pages shorter, and parts where you select an option hopefully easier to read (as well as less indentation). Additionally, it would make it nicer to read for the 'Select an Option' part of the dialogue box before the response options.
Support - As nominator22:31, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Comment - Transcript pages can be an absolute nightmare to read, but I'm not entirely sure how this would solve the issue. What happens if there's another branching set of dialogue after the first branch? Would we have a tabber inside a tabber?22:41, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, to a tabber insider a tabber. Still takes up less space/is neater than loads of indentation and all the dialogue available in one view, in my opinion. I'm unsure how well it would work with *loads* of indented options, however typically that's not the case (and it would look ugly on the transcript page either way)
22:46, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
- If that's the case, I'll have to give my Oppose. There's nothing uglier than tabbers inside tabbers inside tabbers inside tabbers inside tabbers etc 22:48, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Strong oppose - Nested tabbers would be a UI nightmare. There would also be no easy way of saying "Go back to ..." when choosing a specific dialogue option. Personally I'd love to see someone mockup an interactive chat window with JS that can solve our transcript issues. Haidro 23:14, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Oppose - While I do agree that even with the indentation the dialogues (especially complex ones) can be incredibly difficult to follow, I have to agree withg Haidro that nested tabbers are not pretty, and I'm fairly certain there would be cases with 3 or more nested tabbers.09:18, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Counter Proposal - I'd suggest color coding the different dialogue branches, making them visually easier to see, and having the branches collapsible (and initially collapsed). The options could also all be listed together when they occur, with them linking to the appropriate branch.09:18, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
- As in all the text itself would be colour coded? Not sure how I feel about a load of different colours, but collapsible branches would at least be nice. Unsure how exactly you mean for your last proposal point to work out 01:51, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
Nested example - nested example btw 02:52, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
Proposal 2: Master list for each NPC
My second proposal would affect NPC pages, rather than transcript pages themselves. I propose for the Transcript section (or the top of the Transcript page) on each NPCs page to also include links to other transcripts they've had appearances in, as well as their own page, to give a hub for where all their dialogue in the game can be found.
A - For example, Evil Dave would have:
- Transcript:Dimension of Disaster: Demon Slayer
- Transcript:EVIL DAVE v. The People
- Transcript:Evil Dave's Big Day Out
- Transcript:NPC Contact
- Transcript:Recipe for Disaster: Another Cook's Quest
- Transcript:Shadow of the Storm
I'm inclined to believe this would have to be done manually, but if it's possible to automate it LMK :)
B - As A, but with a collapsible list as to not clutter up the page
C - In a template at the top of the NPC transcript page - "This NPC also has dialogue at X, Y, and Z"
Support - As nominator22:31, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
- Support anything out of A/B/C - Amended proposal based on other suggestions - I don't particularly care how this is implemented, as long as other people are happy with it and it conveys the proposed information. My only concern with C is having to create a blank transcript page for NPCs who don't have any dialogue outside of quests.
23:29, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
- Ok my other concern was for B, where there would only be 1 or 2 extra links (kind of annoying to have to click to collapse for so little) 23:31, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Mild support - I wouldn't mind other transcripts where they appear in being listed, however I don't think this is the right solution. It would unnecessarily clutter up pages. 22:41, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Do you have any other suggestions? The only other alternatives I can think of to displaying this information on an NPC page would be in a collapsible list (thus removing the clutter issue, but could be kind of annoying for NPCs which only appear in 1/2 other transcripts), or in an infobox (which, would then clutter up the infobox)22:48, 15 October 2019 (UTC) I'd be more than happy with a collapsible list22:49, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Support B - Read above23:32, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
'Support principle - Agree with Kelsey, but perhaps we could add all these alternate transcripts inside the main transcript page (eg at the top put something like "This NPC also has dialogue at X, Y, and Z"). Haidro 23:14, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
Support B - Some npc may have very long lists that would clutter the pages a lot, but agree that it's good information to have. I'd also avoid having it on the dialogue page as creating blank dialogue pages for npcs just for the list is not ideal. Although, I wonder if there would be npcs that have no dialogue page of their own? Generating this list automatically should not be a problem, just need to make sure that all transcript pages with other's speaking have the npc speaking linked (just make first mention of the name a link). This is probably equally as much work upfront but easier to maintain and continue moving forward.09:18, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Closed - 1) tabbers should not be used to present different branches of dialogue. 2) There is consensus that NPCs' pages should contain a collapsible list of all transcripts that they feature in. I have updated RuneScape:Style guide/Transcripts to reflect this. 15:33, 15 November 2019 (UTC)