Forum:24-hour format in Template:World times

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Forums: Yew Grove > 24-hour format in Template:World times
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This thread was archived on 21 October 2011 by Thebrains222.


I propose that the time format in Template:World times should be changed to 24-hour format at at least for a number of the different timezones. As stated here: "The 24-hour clock enjoys broad everyday usage in most countries outside North America, Australia and the Philippines."

Prayer-icon.pngTyiloTalkQuest.png 12:50, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

Support - As nominator. Prayer-icon.pngTyiloTalkQuest.png 12:50, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - I don't think 24 hour times are needed. I do understand why you may think that is needed since there are different timezones. But even when if do get it to 24 hour times it will be mostly the same but with larger numbers. Hair 13:52, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - Why make it harder for nubsaus? sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 16:57, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

Because I am a nubsau and every time I see this for events etc. I have to look-up what AM is and what PM is. Prayer-icon.pngTyiloTalkQuest.png 18:04, September 19, 2011 (UTC)'
You have to look up what AM and PM is?? Hair 16:14, September 25, 2011 (UTC)
Yup almost every time, because i see it so rarely. Prayer-icon.pngTyiloTalkQuest.png 10:57, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - But the 12 hour clock is also the dominant clock in the countries the majority of our users come from:

The 12-hour clock is the dominant system of time written and spoken in:

Australia Bangladesh Canada (excluding Quebec, in French) Colombia Egypt El Salvador Honduras Ireland Jordan Malaysia Mexico New Zealand Nicaragua Pakistan Philippines Saudi Arabia Singapore United Kingdom United States Venezuela Nigeria Ghana

Wikipedia:12-hour clock

As well:

Some regions, for example, most German, French and Romanian speakers use the 24-hour clock today even when speaking casually; in other countries the 12-hour clock is used more often in spoken form, often with an appendix indicating whether the time refers to the morning or afternoon, as opposed to the 24-hour clock in written form. People are used to converting between the two notations[citation needed] with the simple mental calculation of adding or subtracting 12, and most perceive "three o'clock" and "15:00" simply as synonyms, so in spoken language a person may often pronounce time in 12-hour notation, even when reading a 24-hour display.
Wikipedia:Date and time representation by country

All in all, I don't see the advantages. Hofmic Talk 18:44, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

Here in Denmark we use the 12-hour format in general speaking, when you can't mistake if it's pm or am. However we only say 18:00 as 6, not 6 pm, we don't use the am/pm thing and I really don't think any non-English speaking countries use it. Prayer-icon.pngTyiloTalkQuest.png 10:57, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - It's working fine as it is What I've done Ciphrius Kane Talk 18:45, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Game time is in 24 hour format, and unless I've found some magical way to change it and forgot, looks like the signatures are in the 24 hour format as well. Quest.png Darrik Ash US serv.svg HS ALDarklight detail.png 21:10, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

Er, that's odd, the edit screen is in 24 hour format but the view is 12 hour. Quest.png Darrik Ash US serv.svg HS ALDarklight detail.png 21:11, September 18, 2011 (UTC)
Bro, click here. User:Exor Solieve 02:41, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

Support - I like 24 hour clock. Let's do it. HaloTalk 20:17, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

Question - Why not add a new param to the template so people can choose which format they want? sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 20:18, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

Except that then it would be entirely up to whomever creates the template, as that's where the parameter must be established. The viewer who wants it in 24 hour format won't see it so unless they're the ones who created that template (which forces those who preferred the 12 hour format to see it in 24 and so on...) Hofmic Talk 22:42, September 22, 2011 (UTC)
Uh, what? I have no idea what you're saying. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 00:51, September 23, 2011 (UTC)
He is mostly saying "If you like it 24 hour and choose it that way, everyone will see it like that and vice-versa." Hair 01:22, September 23, 2011 (UTC)
You stated to "add a new param to the template"; eg, {{World times|datetime|zone|12or24}}. However, these parameters can only really be set when editing the page (naturally, exceptions occur, for example, you could use {{USERNAME}} as a parameter value and it will always be the name of the reader). Thus, there's no way to have a setting really that is "user specific", just specific based on what the editor who adds the template to whatever page chooses. In effect, that makes it useless because then it would only become inconsistent (after all, you'd be seeing some 12 and some 24 hour based entirely on what the initial editor chose, not your own preference. Hofmic Talk 01:27, September 23, 2011 (UTC)
{{USERNAME}} doesn't work in templates (e.g. varying output with username, other that just putting the username into a sentence etc), since its evaluated on the user's computer, not on the server. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 15:34, September 23, 2011 (UTC)
Oh, I see. Sorry, was thinking of the template being used personally for some reason. What if we make it so that you can flip between 24-hr and 12-hr times by hide/showing part of the template? I think that's what I originally meant. ;3= sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 17:09, September 23, 2011 (UTC)
Why not just do a collapsible table that includes the 24 hour clock? ʞooɔ 17:31, September 23, 2011 (UTC)
You could implement the preference with js

Support - The 24 hour clock is less ambiguous if you glance at it, and is internationally recognised. If needs be, we can add the 12 hour clock version as hover text easily. Quest.png Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 15:34, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Are there still people using the twelve-hour-format? Wow. User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 15:39, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Of course there are. --LiquidTalk 17:10, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - As mentioned above, the majority of our users use 12 hour clocks. At least leave the time zones that primarily use 12 hour clocks in 12 hour format. --LiquidTalk 17:10, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - No need for it, all it can do is confus. Ronan Talk 18:10, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

7pm is quite more confusing than 19:00. What if someone does not know what pm/am means? User_talk:Fswe1 Fswe1 Brassica Prime symbol.png 07:28, September 25, 2011 (UTC)
I think most everyone knows what AM and PM is. Hair 16:14, September 25, 2011 (UTC)
Not me Frown Prayer-icon.pngTyiloTalkQuest.png 10:57, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Support, as follows: Add a 24-hour column in the table, per Cook above.

 a proofreader ▸ 

18:29, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Why not just do a collapsible table that includes the 24 hour clock?
ʞooɔ 17:31, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Neutral - What I'd think is include both times (e.g. 7:23 PM / 19:23) or use the collapsible method. Another way would be to implement a preference where a user (John Doe) can select his preference, which in this scenario, let's say he selects 12 and 24 hour time. Then, it will appear as 7:23 PM / 19:23, and if Jane Doe wanted 12 hour only, then she would get what she wanted to get. Times will be input in either 12 or 24 hour format, it really depends on the editor, either way it will be seen by the user's custom preference. --中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 00:41, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

To keep it short: The preferences involve PHP and it cannot be accessed by users. We can't make page contents change because of the preferences set in Special:Preferences, except for certain things that have a var in JavaScript, which there isn't in this case. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 10:56, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Comment on collapsible box - As nice as the idea sounds at first, it fails to really help anyone. First of all, all references above state that people who use the 24-hour clock are proficient in the 12 hour clock and even if they write it as 24, will say it as 12. In fact, to my knowledge, pretty much everyone is able to understand both the 12 and 24 hour clocks; they just prefer it in one way. A hidden box that must be clicked to be displayed in no way helps that, since by they can very well read and understand the 12 hour clock, even if they prefer it otherwise. This logic also applies to having both time versions on the same cell: it's redundant. It's like saying "Six o'clock PM / 6:00 PM"; different formats that everyone can understand, yet mean the exact same thing. I've never seen both used at the same time before. It's easier conversion than dollars to cents (likewise, nobody says "$5.12 / 512¢"). Hofmic Talk 01:03, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

It's better than flipping a coin to absolutely choose which format to display. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 15:52, September 25, 2011 (UTC)
Except it doesn't help the template one bit, for reasons explained above. Hofmic Talk 06:38, September 26, 2011 (UTC)
How would it not? People could choose which one they want to look at. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 16:55, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Comment reply to Hofmic - Understood, but still, there should be a preference for time. Look at my comment again please, as I don't think you understood mine. --中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 14:03, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

And how do you propose making a preference? Preferences are a user's own thingy, we can't just grab them, nor can we make them. Hofmic Talk 06:38, September 26, 2011 (UTC)
If that's not possible, then I opt out. --中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 00:09, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Support 24 hrs are easier than 12to my talk page! King TALKWer den König nicht ehrt, ist nicht Lebenswert. 00:11, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Support - svco4bY.png3Gf5N2F.png 00:12, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - --クールネシトーク 19:50, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Support - After all, this is mostly a matter of preference. However, the 24-hour system is already used on other parts of the wiki (top of the page and timestamps). -Hourglass (2011 Hallowe'en event) detail.png I Am Me Talk III The Spark.png- 14:41, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

Compromise - Looking at the times offered in {{World times}}, and considering the most commonly used time system, how about we change the "Europe" entry to the 24-hour system, while leaving the rest in 12-hour format? That way, the majority of users in each the time zones covered should be seeing the times in their preferred formats. --LiquidTalk 02:08, October 11, 2011 (UTC)

Uhh, what? That's much worse. ʞooɔ 02:41, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
Wth is wrong with displaying both and using a show/hide feature for the one you want to look at! -.- sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 02:42, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
Speaking of which, why is it even called "Europe" when Europe is a large continent with several timezones? The timezone in particular is CET, or Central European Time (UTC+1); CEST in the summer (UTC+2).
@Urbancowgurl, it hardly helps when they can read both fine, just have a "preference" to see one, but in order to see that, you'd have to go through the hassle of clicking a hidden section. I think it should stay exactly the same, unmodified. Doesn't really look like there's any consensus, anyway. Hofmic Talk 02:45, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
Well, in my opinion, at least, I'd rather it stay this way. --LiquidTalk 06:14, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
The only thing that makes it possible to put in your preferences is by making a script and then putting it in the Gadgets tab of the preferences, then letting the script change the template. If you want, I can make such script sometime. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 07:35, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
I never suggested a preference, per Joey. sssSp7p.pngIjLCqFF.png 07:41, October 11, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose all changes - Keep ante meridiem and post meridiem, per all. 222 talk 05:31, October 11, 2011 (UTC)

Ante Meridian and Post Meridian, not meridiem... --中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 00:52, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
They're both accepted, noob. 222 talk 06:04, October 21, 2011 (UTC)

Request for closure - Nein consensus - por favor close forum. Gracias. --中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16) 跟我谈话 00:52, October 21, 2011 (UTC)

Closed - No changes will be made. 222 talk 06:04, October 21, 2011 (UTC)